Discuss Marvel's Luke Cage

Does anyone else feel like it was absolutely foolish to kill off Cottonmouth so early in the show? I think Diamondback shouldn't have been revealed until season 2, and just focus on Mariah and Cottonmouth. M. Ali was amazing and such a presence, I was bummed out when he died for sure. Opinions?

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I agree. I am not sour on Diamondback like most but he was not on the level of Cottonmouth.

Cottonmouth was great, and I'm not sure if any Luke Cage villian will top him. I still really enjoyed the first season.

Heh I just came here to start a thread like this. Yeah Cottonmouth was unique and fully realized. Diamondback came off as cartoonish with a weak motivation. If the idea was that Cage needed to eventually have a physical threat, it could have been Cottonmouth somehow. Some in-story reason why he's strong or stronger than Cage.

@RodimusConvoy said:

Heh I just came here to start a thread like this. Yeah Cottonmouth was unique and fully realized. Diamondback came off as cartoonish with a weak motivation. If the idea was that Cage needed to eventually have a physical threat, it could have been Cottonmouth somehow. Some in-story reason why he's strong or stronger than Cage.

I agree, the simpler way to make Cottonmouth a true adversary is too make him diabolical, " hand yourself over to the police or people at unknown location will die because of you." Or the Judas bullets could have been put in Cottonmouth's hands. Like he spent a pretty penny for 5 Judas bullets and he plays a Cat & mouse game with Luke. Much like he did with Diamondback towards the end of the series. Misty Knight jumps in the way to save Luke or a pedestrian and loses her arm. Clare rushes her to the hospital.

If not a Judas bullet I'm sure there is plenty of Hammer Tech Cottomouth could have purchased to hurt Cage in some way.

Better ending, Luke wins in the end and Cottonmouth is beaten and on the run and Mariah kills him. And you see a mysterious figure talking with Shades (Diamondback) about how he has plans to destroy Cage. You never see his face, just an ominous silhouette and a dark voice. Shades returns to help Mariah and Luke gets arrested before he can get his "coffee" with Clare. Way better ending for Season 1.

Though i still really liked Luke Cage, the middle of the season did get a bit...cartoonish.

It's just they got everything so right with Cottonmouth and so wrong with Diamondback, up to and including their respective portrayers. About the only thing they got right with Diamondback was playing off the fact that he is basically an evil Luke Cage. Everything else about him was hard to take serious, which is ironic when in the context of the show everyone was deathly afraid of him.

From a story stand point, I get it. Diamondback was goofy (to me) yet everyone was afraid of him. It was the opposite with Cottonmouth, no one took him serious. I liked seeing that struggle for respect from a villain but that can't last long term. Any and everyone would make a grab for his territory cause they don't fear him, whereas they wouldn't be that stupid with Diamondback. So there's some logic to it, I guess at the end of the day I wish they rolled the Cottonmouth and Diamondback characters into one character played by Mahershala Ali.

Been rewatching Luke Cage to get psyched up for Iron Fist, and while I still don't hate the mid-season villain switch out, I'm finding myself a lot less forgiving of it this time through than I was the first time. The episode where Diamondback chased Cage around with the Judas bullets stood out particularly to me. Thar culminating scene in the theatre would have been AMAZING if it was Cottonmouth instead.

Of course, half of the problem is that they just dump Diamondback into the middle of this story with almost no background (at least not until it's way too late to matter) and expect the audience to have the same level of care and investment in their conflict as we did when Cottonmouth was the antagonist. It feels a lot like someone who was very familiar with the comics thought that they could just name drop Diamondback and that with very little narrative effort we'd all magically care about his story, when nothing could have been further from the truth.

@Aralith said:

Of course, half of the problem is that they just dump Diamondback into the middle of this story with almost no background (at least not until it's way too late to matter) and expect the audience to have the same level of care and investment in their conflict as we did when Cottonmouth was the antagonist. It feels a lot like someone who was very familiar with the comics thought that they could just name drop Diamondback and that with very little narrative effort we'd all magically care about his story, when nothing could have been further from the truth.

I think the problem is, ironically, Shades. Before Diamondback's appearance, Shades was his spokesman, and through him Diamondback seemed very scary, very menacing. It reminded me a lot how Wesley would speak for Kingpin on Daredevil. The problem is that when we finally meet Diamondback he doesn't match up with the way Shades has built him up, in fact in a lot of ways he's the opposite, and Shades has even been doing his own agenda in Diamondback's name. This type of bait and switch hurt the Diamondback character I believe.

@OhJodieBaby said:

Does anyone else feel like it was absolutely foolish to kill off Cottonmouth so early in the show? I think Diamondback shouldn't have been revealed until season 2, and just focus on Mariah and Cottonmouth. M. Ali was amazing and such a presence, I was bummed out when he died for sure. Opinions?

completely agree. i love the baddies that are conflicted, so i really enjoyed the character of cottomouth, and as you say m. ali was excellent. you really missed his presence after he was killed off.

diamonback's history and motivation could have been equally engrossing, but needed more time for development. plus the actor playing him does not seem to have the range required. i agree that the character should have been left for season 2.

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@OhJodieBaby said:

Does anyone else feel like it was absolutely foolish to kill off Cottonmouth so early in the show? I think Diamondback shouldn't have been revealed until season 2, and just focus on Mariah and Cottonmouth. M. Ali was amazing and such a presence, I was bummed out when he died for sure. Opinions?

Agreed, M Ali is a heavy weight actor and plays his part to a T. I think the first season is better than the second and that is partly because M. Ali did such a great job. His was a difficult act to follow.

@RodimusConvoy said:

Heh I just came here to start a thread like this. Yeah Cottonmouth was unique and fully realized. Diamondback came off as cartoonish with a weak motivation. If the idea was that Cage needed to eventually have a physical threat, it could have been Cottonmouth somehow. Some in-story reason why he's strong or stronger than Cage.

M. Ali played Cottonmouth perfectly and helped make this show a hit from the start. I agree he was killed off too soon. I guess it made sense from the vantage point of the plot, but he is such a good actor and brought so much to the show that I wish they had kept him in the show longer. He was believable.

You're right about Diamondback also. When we found out his motivation for attacking Luke was essentially a childhood grudge, it didn't seem to fit. They made him out to be the most feared and powerful criminal, yet all he seems to care about is hurting his half brother because of childhood envy.

What was that technology Diamondback had, the glove and suit with the thing on his back? Luke could withstand an RPD and multiple high powered rifle shots at once without any discernible effect on him, but Diamondback's glove could bloody up his mouth, knock him senseless, and stun him?

They didn't explain that kryptonite effect. The only clue was when Luke talked to Rosario Dawson after the fight and said when he stopped feeding Diamondback hate it weakened Diamondback.
That works in interpersonal relationships, but how did it affect the technology Diamondback was wearing? And anyway, how could it affect Luke?

@write2topcat said:

What was that technology Diamondback had, the glove and suit with the thing on his back? Luke could withstand an RPD and multiple high powered rifle shots at once without any discernible effect on him, but Diamondback's glove could bloody up his mouth, knock him senseless, and stun him?

They didn't explain that kryptonite effect. The only clue was when Luke talked to Rosario Dawson after the fight and said when he stopped feeding Diamondback hate it weakened Diamondback.
That works in interpersonal relationships, but how did it affect the technology Diamondback was wearing? And anyway, how could it affect Luke?

They're low-key saying Luke Cage is similar to...Gladiator. That his strength, and therefore weakness, is proportionate to how he feels about himself, his confidence levels, or in this case, negative energy. Its kinda silly but its the only thing that makes sense. And they carried that theme into season 2: when Bushmaster gives Cage his beatdown, things had JUST ended (as far as he knew at the time) between him and Claire. He was in a sunken place and then BAM ambush (pardon the pun) from Bushmaster. Notice the times they fought after that it was more even, even to the point Bushmaster finally had to cheat.

@RodimusConvoy said:

@write2topcat said:

What was that technology Diamondback had, the glove and suit with the thing on his back? Luke could withstand an RPD and multiple high powered rifle shots at once without any discernible effect on him, but Diamondback's glove could bloody up his mouth, knock him senseless, and stun him?

They didn't explain that kryptonite effect. The only clue was when Luke talked to Rosario Dawson after the fight and said when he stopped feeding Diamondback hate it weakened Diamondback.
That works in interpersonal relationships, but how did it affect the technology Diamondback was wearing? And anyway, how could it affect Luke?

They're low-key saying Luke Cage is similar to...Gladiator. That his strength, and therefore weakness, is proportionate to how he feels about himself, his confidence levels, or in this case, negative energy. Its kinda silly but its the only thing that makes sense. And they carried that theme into season 2: when Bushmaster gives Cage his beatdown, things had JUST ended (as far as he knew at the time) between him and Claire. He was in a sunken place and then BAM ambush (pardon the pun) from Bushmaster. Notice the times they fought after that it was more even, even to the point Bushmaster finally had to cheat.

Good catch on the Gladiator comparison. My first thought was that Luke was rope a doping Diamondback or psyching him out somehow. But the way they played it served to augment Luke's hero force for good image in the show. He didn't exactly defeat Diamondback with love, but he kind of tipped the scales in that direction. He did the hard thing, the right thing, by managing his emotions, controlling the negative emotions he naturally had toward the evil Diamondback. He won by taking the high road in effect, a good message for young fans.

Of course it also mimic'd a familiar trope in hero-villain fight scenes. At first the bad guy seems to have the upper hand which evokes sympathetic feelings from viewers. Then the good guy begins to rally and finally finds a way to win.

(I just read over Gladiator's powers and abilities. That is one awesome super hero. )

Yeah, Cottonmouth was an awesome heel, but if I'm being honest, I think I liked Bushmaster better on Season 2. He could actually hang with Cage on a physical level, and his motives were at least partially justified in wanting to see Mariah suffer.

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