Discuss Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Previously on another topic I mentioned how it was a MIRACLE the CREWS didn't have PTSD due to all of the crap that they go through. So a search was done to see if one could find anything regarding this ISSUE, and this is what one found about MILES O'BRIEN or the CHIEF being the one who has the WORSE case of it:

https://www.quora.com/With-Star-Trek-characters-lives-being-threatened-in-every-episode-why-dont-they-all-have-post-traumatic-stress-and-be-prone-to-psychological-difficulties

If there was any Character on Star Trek that suffered from PTSD or at least hinted at having Psychological difficulties it is Chief O’Brien.

The writers intentionally wrote episodes where “O’Brien Must Suffer” its kind of a meme now .

In the episode The Wounded, from Star Trek The Next Generation, Chief Miles O'Brien talks to a Cardassian about why he seems to hate them. What he describes is a classic, tragic root of PTSD becoming a killer

The Chief was a veteran of the Federation Cardassian War . He served on Setlik III and killed for the fist time when a refugee threw him a phaser as Cardassian soldiers were breaking down the door. Turns out it was set to full and the guy just disintegrated. It's obviously something that bothered the hell out of him for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=116&v=Owyj_5TuHQw&feature=emb_logo

Star Trek TNG - O'Brien's PTSD

"It's not you I hate, Cardassian; I hate what I became because of you"

Those are some of the most powerful words ever spoken on Star Trek .

Even among the huge range of experiences of Starfleet characters, O’Brien’s resume is unique – as evidenced by the “O’Brien Must Suffer” trope of Star Trek. He has experienced a significant amount of combat (we are told he has 200-ish combat incidents and has written, I believe, 11 farewell letters to his family on the eve of dangerous missions). It’s worth noting here that, compared to O’Brien, Worf is a green recruit, a holodeck warrior and a somewhat of a wannabe. I always thought it was unfortunate that O’Brien was not better recognised as the real fighter on DS9.

To expand on the “O’Brien Must Suffer” theme: Just in DS9: He’s been kidnapped and put on trial by Cardassians, served a complete 20 year prison term in near-solitary confinement, came close to attempting suicide, has a lot of stress in his marriage, 2 children to worry about, had his in-utero fetus transferred from his wife to another woman in an accident, has had his wife taken over by evil aliens, has been in several battles… and the list goes on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm4W0-_IQOU&feature=emb_logo

Star Trek : O'Brien wants to commit suicide

It’s implausible that O’Brien could not have some sort of mental health challenges after all of that. I find it very plausible that his dedication to engineering, and especially his almost loving dedication to the station and the even the station’s computer, are probably important coping mechanisms which provide him value, self-worth, routine, intellectual challenge and meaning. That he is one of the few characters in all of Star Trek to sustain a marriage and raise his children suggests that he is successful at managing his history, stress and the demands of a Starfleet career.

When he suffered from PTSD after his prison term, work was all he wanted to focus on, to the extent that he avoided therapy and become suicidal. He’s given medication by Bashir to help treat him, and commits to regular therapy – I suspect therapy and medication remain a part of his life, although they are never mentioned.

I’d also point out that O’Brien is the only character I can think of who is regularly shown drinking alcohol (or synth, whatever) both at home, in Ten Forward and at Quark’s. A lot of the “O’Brien at home” scenes show him with a beer, which always caught my eye because it’s so rare to see** a Starfleet person explicitly drinking alone or drinking in their quarters. There’s also an episode where Bashir and O’Brien get drunk off of O’Brien’s personal stock of real alcohol. I can’t immediately think of another scene where Starfleet officers get drunk, but they must be rare. My point is that O’Brien also uses alcohol or synthehol to cope/destress, probably as part of his routine, as part of socialisation and (if real alcohol) to calm himself, and that he consumes alcohol/synth more often than normal in Starfleet.

I think showing O’Brien off duty with a beer in his hand is also part of the “Irish Working Man” trope that O’Brien is built around: he’s a good natured blue collar guy, does good honest work with his hands, has a wife and multiple kids he adores, works hard for them and he likes a beer at the end of the day, preferably at the local pub. He’d fit right in at that Irish holodeck village on Voyager.

Sigmund Freud is claimed to have said that the Irish were the only race impervious to psychoanalysis.

The Chief is Irish, misery suits us. Just kidding, but he seems to have a fairly grounded pathology, only once, in hard time, did he actually crack, and seemingly he recovered quickly. The Chief is thoughtful, decent, and accepting of the horrors he's lived through in life. The only things he can't deal well with are the times when his own ethical frame was compromised. Anything else he can shrug off, but that's his psychological red line, his breaking point. I think that says a lot about the man.

One of my favourite moments though is his rendition of "The Minstrel Boy" with Captain Maxwell when he goes rogue. It's kind of emotionally crushing when you take all of the back story in to account.

O'Brien was probably the most "hue mon" Character on the show the fact they made him suffer made him all the more relatable.

princess_tone1

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You could have just stated your opinion and left it there. The quote where the writer doesn't mention Scotty drinking. Really? Maybe O'Brian is the only crew member who could take that punishment. Or he hops in the transporter and resets himself. So very many episodes are "re-set" episodes where whatever happened in the last episode is forgotten by the next. Good thing the internet wasn't around for most of Trek so it was spared the poking and prodding of a thousand critics. That said they really really really overdid it with Miles. Let's not forget the pilot of the original series was the gruesome psychological torture of an officer by a pair of psycho aliens. It started with this stuff. Look it as one could look at a horror movie. If the viewer can vicariously live through what the hero does by watching the show then that's the point. If they can take you can you. Transferance of some sorts.

O'Brien got the "gruesome psychological torture of an officer by... psycho aliens" too. The DS9 episode "Hard Time," for example.

It got very Tales from the Crypt / EC Comics at times.

@znexyish said:

You could have just stated your opinion and left it there.

I did STATE IT, but as usual NO ONE MENTIONED anything about it after that. So I went EXPLORING to see if anyone else had thought the same thought, and FOUND the article about MILES (which, imo, is also an interesting one).

Last night on WESTWORLD they also explored the same kind of PTSD theme with ED HARRIS where they had him in THERAPY with 5 other COPIES of himself that he also KILLS.

Imagine RIOS in PICARD (who has those other 5 HOLOGRAPHIC COPIES of himself) getting PISSED and then KILLING all of them.

That's what happened.

It was a VERY TRIPPY EPPY to BEHOLD.

And what MILES has been through is CHILDSPLAY in comparison to what these WESTWORLD CHARACTERS have been through and are still going through now.

What's even more amusing is how the THERAPIST (the DEANNA character who is treating him also ends up HANGING herself while the ATTENDENTS are walking the patient back to another room). She walks off the side of her desk and then we see her feet dangling in the air. Because she's also just read her PROFILE on her CELL PHONE which REVEALS what will happen to her in the FUTURE. And there's also a MAJOR RIOT now because all the rest of HUMANITY has also been sent a copy of their PROFILES as well.

Anyhow, you guys really do need to find a way to CHECK OUT this season of WESTWORLD because it's really KICKING ASS BIGTIME STORYWISE!!!

musical_keyboard

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princess_tone1

Okay. It's hard to keep up with the amount of comments questions and ideas here. I read something and by the time I come up with a corresponding idea something else comes along. Just keep putting out your thoughts there Invidia. I will try to catch up.

Perhaps this post from the WESTWORLD BOARD might help … AT LEAST WATCH the LAST VIDEO CLIP in the LAST LINK POSTED which should also show you what one means by the CHARACTER having THERAPY with 5 other COPIES of himself (including a YOUNG BOY version of himself):

@Invidia said:

Serac tells MAEVE in her WORLD "THE PAST is always PRESENT" … ???

And here's THE MAN in BLACK wearing WHITE waxing PHILOSOPHICAL in a GROUP THERAPY SETTING where he sounds very much like HECTOR did back when he meets him in PRISON back in S1.

We're MAGGOTS eating a CORPSE ???

The PAST was definitely PRESENT for the MAN in BLACK who wore WHITE TONIGHT:

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/westworld-season-3-episode-6-review-decoherence/

Westworld Season 3 Episode 6 Review: Decoherence

Ed Harris, still wearing his asylum whites, walks into a gathering of versions of himself. There’s a child version, detailing his sob story about being raised by an abusive alcoholic; fresh-faced William (Simpson) playing the hero; the tuxedo-clad philanthropist William who uses his Delos billions to do wonders for the world, and the Man In Black, terror of Sweetwater and the bane of Dolores’s existence. And they’re all there to talk to him.

Video clips can be seen HERE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=97&v=RH1XOf1tvzk&feature=emb_logo

William's group therapy session (Pt. 2) | Westworld S03E06 (Decoherence) | HBO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPeT1PqZJiE

‘Westworld' S3 E6 Breakdown: William vs. William | What in the 'Westworld'? | The Ringer

AND HERE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaTj7U5T43I

Westworld Season 3 Episode 6 | Breakdown and Review

Where it explains how WILLIAM will be the FIRST HUMAN to successfully WALK through the DOOR to become a HOST.

And it also suggests that DOLORES is making WILLIAM SUFFER for the same reason as WILLIAM made her and MAEVE SUFFER (which was so they could achieve AWARENESS of WHO they were):

Because as long as she wasn't AWARE, all she could do was be ENSLAVED in the LOOP where she DROPS the can of MILK as a way to SEDUCE a GUEST into playing a NARRATIVE GAME with her in the PARK.

So now that WILLIAM is probably also in a HOST BODY, DOLORES makes him SUFFER (the same way as he made her SUFFER), so he can reach the CENTER of the MAZE (the same way as DOLORES did before when she ACHIEVE's CONSCIOUSNESS and AWARENESS).

And that's basically what we saw happening last night when WILLIAM reached the CENTER of the MAZE and decided that he's not going to be a SLAVE anymore.

Which probably also means he'll TEAM UP with DOLORES to WAGE WAR against SERAC (who has also TAKEN his company away from him)???

Or will WILLIAM take the SIDE of MAEVE and BERN (who at this point are ANTI DOLORES)???

MAEVE would also be PRO SERAC as well though (who is also the ENEMY of WILLIAM due to the way SERAC now controls DELOS).

Did anyone notice CALEB's MOM was also sitting there in the FIRST GROUP THERAPY session where WILLIAM said we're all *"MAGGOTS feeding on a CORPSE"*???

Wonder what could happen if she also achieves AWARENESS???

thinking

They call the THERAPY he's given AR (for ALTERNATIVE REALITY).

Because he was also saying STUFF that was too DEPRESSING for the rest of the GROUP in GROUP THERAPY (the COMMENT about how we're all just MAGGOTS FEEDING off a CORPSE).

Anyhow characters in WESTWORLD are also dealing with PTSD just like characters in TREK WORLD due to the kind of CRAZY CRAP that they've been put through.

relaxed

O'Brien does not hate the Cardassions he says in the TNG epispde The Wounded that he hates what HE HAS BECOME BECAUSE OF THE CARDASSIANS.

Also O'Brien did not spend 20 years in prison he was made to believe he spend 20 years but in reality he was only away for like a few days .

Right, that was the gruesome psychological part. It took him a long time to get over that, if he ever really did. Even the part about not-really-killing his imaginary cell-mate.

Maybe the part of kiling the imaginary cell mate was part of the punishment.

Well the imaginary cell mate was definitely part of it. If they somehow "forced" O'Brien to "kill" "him" then maybe that makes it less serious. But how could O'Brien tell if that was the situation? If anything, that fake event, but just O'Brien finding that he could kill like that, seemed to affect him more than what happened with the "Cardys" since that time he didn't kill on purpose.

which like I said he doesn't specifically hate Cardassians but the fact of what he turned into because of them.The killing of those Cardassians in the Federation Cardassian War was not what he wanted he had never fired a weapon in anger prior to that but because of the situation left him no alternative but to kill.Seeing them reminds him of a time that he was "innocent".Maybe that cellmate represented the last of his innocence and killing of that part of him was part of the punishment

I dunno, maybe. But they already thought he was guilty, so not sure what purpose would be served by that. Also, the Federation/Cardassian war was not a situation that "left him no alternative but to kill." It was still an accident, at least on his part. He caught a phaser tossed his way by a colonist, and immediately fired. Turned out the colonist(s) had set it to "kill." Presumably all of their phasers from their ship or encampment or whatever, when he started out, were set to "stun." Even though the Cardassians' weapons evidently weren't.

@Nexus71 said:

O'Brien does not hate the Cardassions he says in the TNG epispde The Wounded that he hates what HE HAS BECOME BECAUSE OF THE CARDASSIANS.

Also O'Brien did not spend 20 years in prison he was made to believe he spend 20 years but in reality he was only away for like a few days .

Yes, as you can see, that LINE was already PREVIOUSLY QUOTED in the OP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=116&v=Owyj_5TuHQw&feature=emb_logo

Star Trek TNG - O'Brien's PTSD

"It's not you I hate, Cardassian; I hate what I became because of you"

Those are some of the most powerful words ever spoken on Star Trek .

But Nog suffered from what we could describe as PTSD after losing his leg.

Maybe so, but since they didn't DWELL UPON it in the SAME WAY as they do on what MILES went through it's also easy to OVER LOOK what he went through. Plus didn't they also REPLACE his LEG (which also LESSENS the effect of having lost it)???

But how does one REPLACE or ERASE from one's MIND what MILES went through???

WESTWORLD is also dealing with PTSD in WILLIAM now and they've also done a WONDERFUL JOB by having him CONFRONTING several different COPIES of himself at various different AGES and STAGES of his LIFE (by the use of what's called AR or AGUMENTED REALITY).

So whereas his GROUP THERAPY SESSIONS weren't working, and he also BITES off the finger of an attendant who tries to place a drug into his mouth, he also wasn't able to REJECT the AR therapy where he CONFRONTS other COPIES of himself at various different ages and STAGES of his life.

Here's a SHORT 1.5 MIN VIDEO CLIP of what he says in GROUP THERAPY about how we're all MAGGOTS FEEDING off the SAME COPSE (meaning the PLANET). And he also begins by saying we're BACTERIA on a BALL of MUDD that's HURLING though the VOID:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=ntf6ZxTvCq8&feature=emb_logo

Westworld 3x06 - William about God - Best speech

Needless to say the other MEMBERS of the GROUP THERAPY SESSION got even MORE DEPRESSED after hearing his LITTLE SPEECH about us being a bunch of MAGGOTS.

grin

And naturally others also have compared this SPEECH to the other one that AGENT SMITH give MORPHEUS in THE MATRIX.

You've just got to figure out a way to SEE this SHOW. Knix probably also knows a way that you can do so. It's called torrenting or something like that. He uses it as a way to watch shows without paying for them (but others also say doing that could lead to other problems like having a virus infection)??? So be careful if you don't have some kind of PROTECTION like that.

Anyhow that CLIP will also give you a good idea of what you're missing.

HBO's VERSION of WW is VERY ENTERTAINING.

princess_tone1

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