@terriecoleman said: Also grew tired of Daya and her "I killed someone and now I'm all about that thug life" attitude.

After Madison, Daya was the most annoying this season *SPOILERS! then McCullough * * * * * * * * * * Especially when she threatened the GED teacher, actually blame her for Tiffany's death (plus her drugs). Is she dead? That throat punch from Aleida was unexpected like she has Kill Bill skills.

Sad about Red & Lorna final shot but was happy to see Alex in Ohio and the other inmates like Boo etc. thought too short hehe. Hope they also showed Maritza, was hoping she was with Diablo to greet Blanca (though not sure she can travel from Colombia).

I thought Taystee was gonna call Cindy but I'm pretty satisfied with both their stories. Feel bad for Taystee's situation but as long as she's happy finding a purpose and helping the women after they leave prison. I really wanted the guard killing Piscatella storyline or even just a hint that there's a chance for investigation. Like evidence or a hidden camera by Freida in the bunk. But who knows - might happen if she continues to live.

Piper & Alex...

Tired from watching the last 2 ep (a rollercoaster ride), and yet feel tingly inside, haha chuckle. Been an incredible journey. Like they're my family, now.

The show walked the fine line in informing us about inmates & guards through shocks & reliefs. Starting to feel lucky to have experienced this once-in-a-lifetime show. Great surprise to see CO Mendez at the end!

I love all the cast, minus Piper (plastic smiles & timed eye blinks).

This came out the same time as The Boys so I decided to watch that instead, now I'm gradually making my way through OITNB Season 7 and it's... just not good. I'm 7 episodes in and I am struggling to continue. So far there was only 1 episode I actually thought was funny and the rest plays out like a soap opera and it's 2019 so OF COURSE it's got to tell us how woke it is.

It was nice to see Maritza again as she was one of the funniest characters, but once she left again all the funny went with her.

Finally managed to slog through the rest of the final season, it's by far the weakest although to be honest I can't remember much from last season. With the exception of a few characters it's largely not funny and a lot of forced/convoluted plot points happen. I'm glad it's over, I hate seeing once great shows spiral into mediocrity .

@cswood said:

it's 2019 so OF COURSE it's got to tell us how woke it is.

Given today's climate I thought it was impressive how balanced this season was with regards to these issues and deserved praise rather than scorn. One notable example was it's portrayal of Metoo. It focused on the accused rather than the victim, portraying Caputo as a layered human being rather than a 2 dimensional monster and demonstrating how this kind of situation is complex rather than colouring it black and white as the media always does.

Caputo is a generally likable character who does a lot of noble things. While the show demonstrates the victim misinterpreting some of the situation, as from what I can remember it was not Caputo's choice to fire her. Yes, Caputo has behaved incorrectly, he has been a sleazy guy in the past. But the show does not make this his defining characteristic. The show does suggest he should be punished but then also explores the idea that his punishment is too severe as his new reputation then stops him from being able to carry out the noble actions he needs to do to help others. And thus suggesting that the Metoo movement, while necessary, has become too powerful.

I also noted how the show showed Judy King use her power to sexually harass her male colleague, challenging today's stereotype of Male= evil and Female=victim.

The show was still guilty of a couple of predictable, black and white woke bits admittedly. But I was far more forgiving because of how balanced the rest of it was.

Showing these issues in this kind of balanced light is unheard of in today's films and TV and I see this as a huge step forward and very brave of the show (although I do think it was brave enough because it was the last season and there was no threat of cancellation). And I do think we should be encouraging rather than criticizing.

@JustinJackFlash said:

@cswood said:

it's 2019 so OF COURSE it's got to tell us how woke it is.

Given today's climate I thought it was impressive how balanced this season was with regards to these issues and deserved praise rather than scorn. One notable example was it's portrayal of Metoo. It focused on the accused rather than the victim, portraying Caputo as a layered human being rather than a 2 dimensional monster and demonstrating how this kind of situation is complex rather than colouring it black and white as the media always does.

I didn't like the way they handled Caputo's Metoo accusation at all. He acted liked a total buffoon doing everything in his power to make things worse. I also thought it was awful how he goes through all this trouble and gets ball surgery in order to have a child and thing she aborts it only to adopt a kid later? How is any of this supposed to be funny or heartwarming when one of the few likeable characters gets screwed over so hard?

I also noted how the show showed Judy King use her power to sexually harass her male colleague, challenging today's stereotype of Male= evil and Female=victim.

That was interesting but they still made her sympathetic by showing how SHE was sexually harassed and then she nor her harasser suffers any real consequences. Granted things worked out for Alex and Piper in the end, but still, the writing was way off this season compared to past seasons.

The show was still guilty of a couple of predictable, black and white woke bits admittedly. But I was far more forgiving because of how balanced the rest of it was.

Showing these issues in this kind of balanced light is unheard of in today's films and TV and I see this as a huge step forward and very brave of the show (although I do think it was brave enough because it was the last season and there was no threat of cancellation). And I do think we should be encouraging rather than criticizing.

I disagree that showing these issues is "unheard of" given several shows and movies sell themselves on how much they are focusing on these kind of issues. Don't get me wrong, showing the female immigrant/ICE facility was a great idea and interesting showcase, but none of the women were shown to be bad guys, they were all innocent victims of circumstance. The closest thing we got to a villainous character would be Dia/Aleida and Dia was VERY underwritten this season (I assume so that we would hate her) but the actress that plays Aleida is so good in how despicable she is she was easily one of the highlights of the season and one of the funniest characters.

I didn't totally hate the season it just did not seem nearly as good as seasons past and was so focused on political issues it forgot that it's mostly a comedy.

@cswood said:

I disagree that showing these issues is "unheard of" given several shows and movies sell themselves on how much they are focusing on these kind of issues.

You may misunderstand what I mean. I am fully aware of how bombarded we are with these issues in film and tv. But they have all been completely one sided and patronizing while ignoring the subjective complexities that come with them. This season of OISTNB is the very first time I've ever seen an attempt to see the other side of things and to see them as more complex. Not all of the issues, no. But a lot of them. You may not have thought it did it very well, but the fact that it made an attempt is commendable. You thought they portrayed Caputo as a bumbling buffoon, but I see that as way better than evil villain.

If there are other films/shows that have attempted a balanced perspective of these issues I'd be interested to hear of them.

I didn't totally hate the season it just did not seem nearly as good as seasons past and was so focused on political issues it forgot that it's mostly a comedy.

It's interesting that you see the show as a comedy. And I guess it is, or at least it tries to be. But I don't think I've ever laughed while watching it in all it's 7 seasons. I tend to think it's far more successful as a drama. It can be light, farcical and amusing but I've always found it very jarring when it really goes for big laughs, given some of it's dark themes.

I've never thought to myself: 'I feel like a comedy tonight. I know! Orange is the New Black!'. So I don't see s7 as any different to the rest of it in that sense.

But I would agree that it tried to cram so many political issues into one season and probably should have spread them out over different seasons.

@cswood said: I didn't like the way they handled Caputo's Metoo accusation at all. He acted liked a total buffoon doing everything in his power to make things worse. I also thought it was awful how he goes through all this trouble and gets ball surgery in order to have a child and thing she aborts it only to adopt a kid later? How is any of this supposed to be funny or heartwarming when one of the few likeable characters gets screwed over so hard?

Both Caputo & Fig committed to having their own birth child (right way to say, b4 woke trolls descend?), and went to great lengths. However, by twist of fate, Fig gave up her mother-to-be situation to get abortion pills for an inmate (among whom she used to deride). In the end, the couple sought to adopt a kid. Apart from helping the inmate, Fig was shown to mature in 2 other ways:

• committing to settling down with Caputo (unthinkable until S07, as she was uptight & using men even when their feelings can be hurt, eg. Caputo)
• deciding to adopt, rather than conceive, a child. Without words, she must have realised that there have always been unwanted pregnancies & kids. And thus decided to end her determination in wanting to conceive a baby, and in turn, save a child. It's similar to ppl choosing to adopt somewhat grown dogs (mostly abandoned), rather than cute puppies (possibly sourced from cruel puppy mills). This is hard to explain, but once you got it, then yeah.

When you said Caputo did many stupid things, try to put yourself in his shoes. If you use yourself as a base, then yeah, he seemed stupid. But if you're grown to know him over the seasons, even his mistakes started to make him affable & down-to-earth. And he grew thru it all.

At the end of S07, when I saw the other cast (mostly missing from before), my heart soared. And to see that the inmates, guards, etc were mostly in a better place than before, was overwhelmingly satisfying.

As I went about my boring but lucky life, I unexpectedly remembered the chars, and yeah I miss them. Plus for each fictional char, there are multiples of them irl. Am bittersweet about it; while incarceration has been proven to be unnecessarily cruel, some inmates would rise above themselves in spite of the system. The show & podcasts, etc have changed my view on inmates & 'criminals'.

@JustinJackFlash said:

You may misunderstand what I mean. I am fully aware of how bombarded we are with these issues in film and tv. But they have all been completely one sided and patronizing while ignoring the subjective complexities that come with them. This season of OISTNB is the very first time I've ever seen an attempt to see the other side of things and to see them as more complex. Not all of the issues, no. But a lot of them. You may not have thought it did it very well, but the fact that it made an attempt is commendable. You thought they portrayed Caputo as a bumbling buffoon, but I see that as way better than evil villain.

The point about complexity of the issue is fair but I don't agree it was even handed since all of the women were portrayed as innocent victims with no agency or responsibility for their actions. Even on the non-immigrant side the woman who killed her children was even made to be a sympathetic character.

But as for Caputo it was nice that he wasn't a villain but he is arguably the ONLY male character who wasn't and outright bastard aside from maybe Jason Bigg's character but that was more of a cameo. Not saying it's the worst display of gender prejudice I've seen but it just felt very deliberate compounded by the serious lack of funny this last season.

It's interesting that you see the show as a comedy. And I guess it is, or at least it tries to be. But I don't think I've ever laughed while watching it in all it's 7 seasons. I tend to think it's far more successful as a drama. It can be light, farcical and amusing but I've always found it very jarring when it really goes for big laughs, given some of it's dark themes.

I've never thought to myself: 'I feel like a comedy tonight. I know! Orange is the New Black!'. So I don't see s7 as any different to the rest of it in that sense.

Really? Up until the last 3 or so seasons many of the character quirks have been played for laughs. Sure Suzanne has mental issues but her story arcs are loaded with funny moments. Flaca, Maritza, Tastyee, Big Boo and Nicky all had regular funny scenes. Yes there's drama mixed in but I did notice an obvious shift after Poussey's death and the introduction of Piscatella. But I personally liked the show a lot more when it was more lighthearted.

And I can't ignore the fact the shift started in 2016 which was the start of a lot of shows and movies starting to lean much further into one particular political direction.

But I would agree that it tried to cram so many political issues into one season and probably should have spread them out over different seasons.

This I totally agree with. I'm not against a show or movie exploring a political topic but I really don't think this last season had the right amount of time to do it justice outside portraying all the women as innocent victims of circumstance.

@EnlightenMe said:

Both Caputo & Fig committed to having their own birth child (right way to say, b4 woke trolls descend?), and went to great lengths. However, by twist of fate, Fig gave up her mother-to-be situation to get abortion pills for an inmate (among whom she used to deride). In the end, the couple sought to adopt a kid. Apart from helping the inmate, Fig was shown to mature in 2 other ways:

• committing to settling down with Caputo (unthinkable until S07, as she was uptight & using men even when their feelings can be hurt, eg. Caputo)
• deciding to adopt, rather than conceive, a child. Without words, she must have realised that there have always been unwanted pregnancies & kids. And thus decided to end her determination in wanting to conceive a baby, and in turn, save a child. It's similar to ppl choosing to adopt somewhat grown dogs (mostly abandoned), rather than cute puppies (possibly sourced from cruel puppy mills). This is hard to explain, but once you got it, then yeah.

When you said Caputo did many stupid things, try to put yourself in his shoes. If you use yourself as a base, then yeah, he seemed stupid. But if you're grown to know him over the seasons, even his mistakes started to make him affable & down-to-earth. And he grew thru it all.

This is because that whole Caputo MeToo plot was being played for laughs. It's the only excuse to explain why he would go to his accuser's house, let alone at night, and then have a reaction to his ball surgery that made it look like he was having an orgasm getting him into even more trouble. Granted Caputo isn't exactly the smartest character so it's not totally out of line for his character but it did come off as very predictable. After he met his former coworker for advice I knew exactly what was going to happen. It was just lazy.

At the end of S07, when I saw the other cast (mostly missing from before), my heart soared. And to see that the inmates, guards, etc were mostly in a better place than before, was overwhelmingly satisfying.

As I went about my boring but lucky life, I unexpectedly remembered the chars, and yeah I miss them. Plus for each fictional char, there are multiples of them irl. Am bittersweet about it; while incarceration has been proven to be unnecessarily cruel, some inmates would rise above themselves in spite of the system. The show & podcasts, etc have changed my view on inmates & 'criminals'.

Well I'm happy for you. I didn't hate the season it just just felt very lacking to me as this was one of those shows I would binge within a day or two and this time it took me like 2 weeks to finish.

You guys REALLY need to get a life! Complaining about how despicable white male characters are portrayed as 'despicable' in this show is RICH. Almost EVERYONE in OITNB is rotten and if you didn't have your collective asses up your heads you would see this. There ARE almost NO 'good' characters in the show, black, white, male , female, young or old. Moaning about "woke' plots or story lines is really really RICH. Are the days of the John Wayne good guy in a white hat not "woke" enough for you? Must all your white male heroes be "untouchable"? Isn't the horribly heroic Tony Soprano enough for you? Or the dude who is the drug dealing teacher? Walter something Does EVERYTHING that is on TV have to show YOU in a superhuman, super heroic light to satisfy your masturbatory fantasy? Geeze!

Let's see how SOMEONE else lives for a focking change! You DO realize YOU are a minority on this globe don't you? You do understand that TV programing today takes into account a more GLOBAL market place don't you? I know, I know it is your fantasy land. However please realize OTHER PEOPLE have fantasies TOO!!!!! And no, they are NOT the same as YOURS. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT!!!!!

@Thespear said:

You guys REALLY need to get a life! Complaining about how despicable white male characters are portrayed as 'despicable' in this show is RICH. Almost EVERYONE in OITNB is rotten and if you didn't have your collective asses up your heads you would see this. There ARE almost NO 'good' characters in the show, black, white, male , female, young or old. Moaning about "woke' plots or story lines is really really RICH. Are the days of the John Wayne good guy in a white hat not "woke" enough for you? Must all your white male heroes be "untouchable"? Isn't the horribly heroic Tony Soprano enough for you? Or the dude who is the drug dealing teacher? Walter something Does EVERYTHING that is on TV have to show YOU in a superhuman, super heroic light to satisfy your masturbatory fantasy? Geeze!

Let's see how SOMEONE else lives for a focking change! You DO realize YOU are a minority on this globe don't you? You do understand that TV programing today takes into account a more GLOBAL market place don't you? I know, I know it is your fantasy land. However please realize OTHER PEOPLE have fantasies TOO!!!!! And no, they are NOT the same as YOURS. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT!!!!!

Easy, easy. Calm down, relax.

One of the things I've always really liked about the show is it's vast array of different characters from different backgrounds. In fact, the rather white Piper is probably one of my least favorite of the main characters. She seemed kind of bland in comparison to the rest and I thought the show improved a lot after it's first season when it started to focus less on her in favour of the more diverse characters in the prison. At that point we had rarely seen films or tv about these kinds of realistic people, the show was groundbreaking in terms of representation.

And I haven't really complained about the shows wokeness. As I've mentioned before I consider it to be fairly well balanced in comparison to many of the film and tv we get bombarded with. That said, the show doesn't get everything right and it does have it's flaws, which it's only fair that people discuss. And I wouldn't say that all the characters were 100% rotten at all. Most of them had quite mixed personalities, which reflected real life. Though I can think of at least one straight, white male character who was completely rotten, Mendez. He was two dimensional and a stereotypical bad guy. I haven't overtly complained about that myself, but I think it's fair for others to point these things out. A show should strive to avoid all stereotypes.

But generally I've been very happy with the show and enjoyed the majority of it.

On Mendez, he's not the cookie-cutter type. Once he believed the baby of Daya is his, he went out of his way to take care of the baby (with his mum's manipulative help).

So I guess Mendez mum (seemingly rich) used to over-dote on him when he was lil, and spoiled him. Thus he lacked direction, and ended up as a poorly paid + bored guard. Took it out on the inmates. Yet shown at the end to be playing with 'his' kid, as in he didn't waver.

Agree many of the show's chars are deplorable, yet they can still redeem themselves (maybe except Piscatella even if he were still alive). I still feel lucky in having witnessed this series. Another show I'm watching on Netflix is "I am a Killer". It's more doco style, slower, and less dramatic, but makes me guess if each inmate is guilty and/or evil. If there're other similar shows, pls tell us... Thanks!!

Ps. Here's a pic of Mendez at the end of the show https://orange-is-the-new-black.fandom.com/wiki/George_Mendez (doesn't have that 'pornstache' moustache anymore)

@EnlightenMe said:

Agree many of the show's chars are deplorable, yet they can still redeem themselves (maybe except Piscatella even if he were still alive). I still feel lucky in having witnessed this series. Another show I'm watching on Netflix is "I am a Killer". It's more doco style, slower, and less dramatic, but makes me guess if each inmate is guilty and/or evil. If there're other similar shows, pls tell us... Thanks!!

Haven't heard of I am a Killer but sounds interesting. If you haven't already seen it there is GLOW about the making of a women's wrestling tv show in the 80s. OITNB's creator Jenji Kohan is involved so it has a very similar vibe to it, both shows take what would previously be seen as exploitation genres and turn them into more thoughtful portrayals of a diverse set of women, with a similar blending of drama and comedy. It's also on Netflix.

"Easy, easy. Calm down, relax."

Easy for YOU to say while the "fanboys" have a collective meltdown over ANYTHING that does not present their "kind" in the most favorable light possible OR have a similar meltdown when ANYBODY else is presented in the SAME superhero formulation. The very fact that you view my reaction as an OVERREACTION is a problem, given the real world implications of a POV i am reacting to.

Essentially what you are saying is : even if what you are saying is true it's NO BIG DEAL...WRONG!