@dfle3 said:

What do we know about the people/interests behind this website?

We know that they are owned by TiVo/Rovi and that content/data contributed by users here can be monetized by them. (TiVo makes DVRs and, more recently, streaming hardware and apps; Rovi is their TV listings provider for their channel guide, and the two companies merged not long ago and are now under the holding company Xperi.)

But, from what I've been able to glean, TMDb is perhaps the most benign of these companies in how it uses data. TMDb's privacy policy also tells you how you can request to see what data it has about you and how to request deletion of your data if you wish.

I don't think there's anything one needs to feel paranoid about. Nowadays companies need to monetize their data to stay in business. From what I can tell, TMDb is pretty responsible in how they use your data.

@pt100 said:

We know that they are owned by TiVo/Rovi and that content/data contributed by users here can be monetized by them. (TiVo makes DVRs and, more recently, streaming hardware and apps; Rovi is their TV listings provider for their channel guide, and the two companies merged not long ago.)

But, from what I've been able to glean, TMDb is perhaps the most benign of these companies in how it uses data. TMDb's privacy policy also tells you how you can request to see what data it has about you and how to request deletion of your data if you wish.

I don't think there's anything one needs to feel paranoid about. Nowadays companies need to monetize their data to stay in business. From what I can tell, TMDb is pretty responsible in how they use your data.

Thanks for the info. I found this info on TiVo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo#Privacy_concerns

"TiVo records usage data for their own research and they also sell it to other corporations such as advertisers. Nielsen and TiVo have also previously collaborated to track viewing habits. This data is sold to advertising agencies as a way of documenting the number of viewers watching specific commercials to their corporate clients.

TiVo has three levels of data collection. By default, the user is in "opt-out" status".

Obviously that's not about this website but it seems par or better for the course as far as corporations go. More information by this website about what they do and how they do it would be appreciated though. Things get really bad though when sites/services are bought by those who don't care about privacy etc. And the T&Cs of this site suggest that could come into play here.

@dfle3 said:

Things get really bad though when sites/services are bought by those who don't care about privacy etc. And the T&Cs of this site suggest that could come into play here.

That is always a possibility when a company gets bought. Most sites have the same disclaimer in the fine print. That's normal. If you're worried, then you would have to keep track of companies buying other companies and check periodically. But most people don't bother because it's just too much work to keep track of all these companies. I always just assume they are using me to make money. As long as they're not being intrusive, I don't mind.

For example, I've been a TiVo customer for a couple of decades now, having owned a number of their hardware DVRs. And they've always treated me well. When they not long ago started putting front-end advertising in DVR recordings as a way to make more money, they allowed loyal customers not to have any of those ads show up by making a one-time request to eliminate them. Once I asked them to opt me out, the ads never appeared in any recordings.

I'm not in the US. TiVos still big there? I heard that the new broadcasting standard will allow granular monitoring of what we watch, for advertisers, so that's not something that I look forward to. TV manufacturers are including cameras, audio recording, Google and Amazon features etc. FFS.

If US big tech firms like these bought some site which I used, I'd run away. Did hear how people who bought a new Oculus RIft needed to use Facebook in order to use it. If they used a fake name for Facebook, their OR might not work.

I'm really hoping that the US government breaks these big tech companies up and puts a muzzle on their snooping. That would be nice.

Most hardware-based DVRs are fading away, except for the newer, network DVRs like Tablo. I have a Tablo Quad that lets me record from four tuners simultaneously from an HD antenna, store the recordings on a 5TB external hard drive and then stream the content to any of my TVs that are using a streaming player such as Roku or Amazon Fire TV stick 4k. (I dropped cable TV several years ago, so I either watch about 30 local TV channels via HD antenna or I stream content via Roku/Amazon Fire TV Stick and use the streaming content provider's cloud DVR or on-demand playback options.) I still have a TiVo Premiere and a TiVo Ultra I can use if the Tablo Quad fails, so I can easily swap them in for HD antenna recording until I can get the Tablo repaired/replaced.

I believe that most providers have an opt-out option for privacy, but it is not usually the default, and you may have to do some work to figure it out, or else contact them for help. I don't own a smart TV because I don't need one w/my streaming players. Although I don't plan on buying any VR equipment such as Oculus, I do have a FB account in case something else requires it. But I'm not active on FB, and I set all the privacy settings to maximum, so I have no problems w/ads or behavior tracking. You could do the same if you're worried. You could also set up a FB account w/a second email account that you don't use for anything else instead of using your main email addy. Then turn on maximum privacy. It's basically like being nonexistent to the outside world, as no one ever sees anything you do in that FB account, especially if you don't do anything in it.

I think the U.S. congress may implement some new privacy laws, but I don't really need them myself, so I don't worry about it. I'm not sure about Europe, Asia, etc. Here is a recent news story about congress possibly passing an antitrust bill to help stop some of their practices. More may be on the way.

TiVos were released in Australia many years ago, long after they were popular in the US. They were gimped somehow, in ways which I don't remember, which made them a less appealing prospect. Oh, I think it was the ad skipping thing which wasn't available in Australia. Because of commercial tv stations. I don't think that TiVos are a thing in Australia anymore and haven't been for years. > https://techau.com.au/tivo-no-longer-being-sold-in-australia/

I've got a triple tuner DVR (I think, although maybe it's two tuners but being able to record at least three channels so long as it's on the same broadcasters' channels). Last year my 2TB drive filled up and I transferred the contents to a portable drive and emptied my DVR's drive. It's filling up rapidly again. I'll probably never get around to watching 1% of what I've recorded.

You ever hear the Bruce Springsteen song "57 channels and nothing on"? That's why subscription TV doesn't appeal to me. I'm pretty much stuck on ABC TV now.

Facebook is toxic and I wouldn't want to have a bar of it. You need to provide them with your phone number to join, right? And your real name? Please. They're the digital equivalent of junk mail providers. I'd never give my personal details to junk mail providers so I'm not going to make an exception to Facebook and its like.

The US has abandoned its antitrust stance to let US big tech companies get even more powerful. Glanced at this story which I looked up now:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/06/facebook-google-antitrust-investigations-explained

I remember reading some years back how Facebook could see how certain apps or companies were trending or performing on their platform and bought them. It was in decline but buying Instagram, I think, gave new life to them. They basically had inside knowledge of a competitive threat to them which they bought out due to that inside knowledge. I'd like to see them have to ditch such buys, especially Google with YouTube.

Antitrust laws were brought in for a reason. But money talks for politicians.

Can you explain all this without writing too log to read paragraphs.

I don't think he can write concisely. I also think he's perhaps a bit more paranoid than he needs to be. One doesn't need to furnish a phone # to get on FB. But one can always use a Google Voice number for that purpose, and then never actually use it for phone calls, just as one can use a "throwaway" email addy. And I already explained to him how to have great privacy on FB and just use it if something else requires it, such as Oculus.

I think it may actually be better for him to just watch ABC, as he says; although that would be too limiting for me (and nearly everyone else, I'm guessing). It sounds, based on what he said about how much he records but will never watch, that he's a somewhat compulsive recorder, but not as much of a watcher. Sticking w/just ABC might be good therapy for him, although it would bore me to tears.

But as far as I'm concerned, there's plenty of good content out there for little or no cost (e.g., 30 local channels for free w/an HD antenna; or a few cheap streaming apps with tons of content).

Hehe... Thank you for a quick reply PT. I guess I would have to adhere to these paragraph writing and reading. No short answers. Got it.

@pt100 said:

I don't think he can write concisely. I also think he's perhaps a bit more paranoid than he needs to be. One doesn't need to furnish a phone # to get on FB. But one can always use a Google Voice number for that purpose

Charming. Your solution is to use Google to bypass Facebook measures? This company:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/germany-fines-google-for-unprecedented-street-view-wi-fi-data-breach/

Facebook and Google are just really bad corporate citizens. That's not "paranoid", that's just...noticing them in the news. All the times that they're in the news for the bad stuff that they do. Which is a lot. In any case, like I said earlier, if Facebook takes the view that you've provided them with fake information, like a phone number that isn't yours in the sense they they require or a disposable email, they can cut you out of their service. Or not let you use your VR which you paid for.

Watching commercial TV bores me to tears with all the ads that they run and how they move programmes around the schedule all the time so that your series recordings get mucked around. That's if they had something worth watching.

@dfle3 said:

Watching commercial TV bores me to tears with all the ads that they run and how they move programmes around the schedule all the time so that your series recordings get mucked around. That's if they had something worth watching.

I don't know what TV is like in Australia or elsewhere, but I have a Tablo Quad network DVR, so I can record all my local stations from an HD antenna for free, and the DVR will automatically delete the commercials. Similarly, I have a PlayOn server on my PC. It allows me to record from a large number of paid and free streaming services and automatically delete all the commercials. In both cases I can then stream the recorded content to any TV in my home that is hooked up to a streaming device. Pretty simple and satisfying. And if they move programs around, the DVR catches it and records correctly, same as w/a TiVo Bolt.

I think you misunderstood how to get what you want using a free Google Voice phone number or an email addy from a reputable company that you use only for signing up to FB. But I'm not going to argue with you about it. I suggest you do more research, or else just try to enjoy living in a cave, protected from all the evil companies out there.

I'm done with this tiresome thread.

@akumar22 said:

Can you explain all this without writing too log to read paragraphs.

If this site requires you to provide them with your phone number, photo ID etc in order to use it, run like Hell.

I saw this comment by a Reddit user who bought an Oculus VR headset but it didn't work because of a problem with Facebook. They didn't want to use Facebook but they ended up providing them with their real name, real date of birth and photo ID!

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/jb86d1/facebook_deleted_my_barebones_facebook_account_i/g8umk91/

Businesses are in the business of needing way too much info about people for advertising purposes.

Sorry if this is too long for you. Somethings can't be said in a Tweet.

@dfle3 said:

@akumar22 said:

Can you explain all this without writing too log to read paragraphs.

If this site requires you to provide them with your phone number, photo ID etc in order to use it, run like Hell.

I saw this comment by a Reddit user who bought an Oculus VR headset but it didn't work because of a problem with Facebook. They didn't want to use Facebook but they ended up providing them with their real name, real date of birth and photo ID!

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/jb86d1/facebook_deleted_my_barebones_facebook_account_i/g8umk91/

Businesses are in the business of needing way too much info about people for advertising purposes.

Sorry if this is too long for you. Somethings can't be said in a Tweet.

I've been lurking in this thread for a while now, and it seems to me that you either have received incorrect info or you are misstating things. The minimum amount of information required to create a personal Facebook account is a first name, last name, valid email address or phone number (not both), password (that you make up), gender and birth date. I have several Outlook and gmail addresses that I can use when necessary to sign up on places like Facebook. You don't need to furnish a picture ID or any additional info.

As PT100 pointed out, you can set FB settings to give maximum privacy, including letting no one else see your FB page or your image, etc. You don't need to actually do any activity on FB--posting, replying, friending anyone, etc. It's as though you are just a blank person. And if you're not doing anything that is legally or morally questionable online, you have nothing to fear, unless you tend to be paranoid by nature. As PT100 said, you can stay safe and not be intruded upon if you really want to without living like a hermit in a cave.

I'm not going to argue with you. That would be a waste of time. But I just wanted to point out that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Maybe you should spend some more time researching how to use the Internet safely and privately, and less time listening to every nervous person out there who told you a story. E.g., use a privacy browser like Epic and any of its free proxy servers when online. Use FB only as a means to an end, but don't do anything there. And if you don't like Oculus's policy, there are probably competitors that won't require what they do.

Also, you have wandered way off topic here. You have nothing to fear from using TMDb. Just accept the fact that when you use sites like this, depending on what you do here, you are to some extent the product that gets monetized in exchange for what you get out of it. That's life on the Internet. If you don't like it, then just go offline and read used books or find a "safe" hobby. But quit whining about it.

@Moon_Doggie said:

"The minimum amount of information required to create a personal Facebook account is a first name, last name, valid email address or phone number (not both), password (that you make up), gender and birth date... As PT100 pointed out, you can set FB settings to give maximum privacy...And if you're not doing anything that is legally or morally questionable online, you have nothing to fear, unless you tend to be paranoid by nature...Also, you have wandered way off topic here. You have nothing to fear from using TMDb. Just accept the fact that when you use sites like this, depending on what you do here, you are to some extent the product that gets monetized in exchange for what you get out of it. That's life on the Internet. If you don't like it, then just go offline and read used books or find a "safe" hobby. But quit whining about it".

This thread is about the practices of websites. Facebook is an example of a website which I would not like this site to emulate, so my comments about companies like this is relevant.

If you've given a company (like Facebook) your "first name, last name, valid email address or phone number (not both), password (that you make up), gender and birth date" then you do not have "maximum privacy". You've already sold your privacy. For free.

"If you're not doing anything that is legally or morally questionable online, you have nothing to fear". If online practices of companies like Facebook were applied in the real world...every time you go to a store, you'd have to verify your identity, consent to having a tracking device put on you by every store that you visit etc. China's government has a system like that. No, a business doesn't need all this information about me and they're not the police. They're just trying to be better at monetising me. That's not what I use the web for.

Saw this article about young people abandoning Facebook:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/08/i-might-delete-it-facebooks-problem-with-younger-users

I'm sure you'd argue that they're "whining" and should find a "safe" hobby. I'm not going to argue with you. Like the interviewees in the article, I just don't like Facebook. Why on Earth would I make an account with it, even if it had "maximum privacy"?

Maybe this site would love to be bought out by a giant like Facebook. If that happened, this site would lose all respect for user privacy. I"d be out then, even if they offered your notion of maximum 'privacy'.

Switch to decaf.