Hi, the recommendation is to use the keyword musical for this purpose. Using the "music" genre for musicals is incorrect.

So what exactly should be in the "music" genre? How would you define it (what general rule would you have)?

Concerts? Singing/dancing reality competition? Anything else?

I would say anything that is about Music, where music is a key element/theme!. (example, that might or might not also be musical; Sister Act, Pitch Perfect, Bohemian Rhapsody, High School Musical). Not just a film where characters randomly burst out singing for no reason -> Musical (any disney film basically, but also The Greatest Showman, Mamma Mia, Walking on Sunshine etc) (I just checked those and the last two [mamma mia sequel, not the first one tho) recently had Music (re-)added again ... I locked the genres ^_)

But yeah, also concerts, and talent shows like Idols!

@lineker said:

Hi, the recommendation is to use the keyword musical for this purpose. Using the "music" genre for musicals is incorrect.

At what point would you transition a keyword to a genre? For both musical and sport there are over 2k movies. That seems like a reasonable number. Most other keywords I looked at only had a few hundred or less.

Considering that you had to put a note on your genre page about this it must be an issue or at least a regular question.

I personally consider musical it’s own genre. It is a very distinct form of movie that differentiates itself from all other movies. I’m not going to look for family or romance first when I want to watch something like Sound of Music or Oklahoma!, for instance. I could see something more specific be a keyword, like Broadway. Or if I come across a movie and find out it is a musical that can make the difference between watching it or not.

For reference all of these services have Musicals as a genre: IMDb, Amazon, Apple, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Wikipedia, Trakt, Google, All movies, Fandom, etc.

@munpip214 said:

I personally consider musical it’s own genre. It is a very distinct form of movie that differentiates itself from all other movies. I’m not going to look for family or romance first when I want to watch something like Sound of Music or Oklahoma!, for instance. I could see something more specific be a keyword, like Broadway. Or if I come across a movie and find out it is a musical that can make the difference between watching it or not.

Seconded. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of musicals, I was shocked to see that there isn't a genre here for them. I understand that movies about music, music documentaries and concerts should be a separate thing. However, I think the musical format is definitely a very specific style of filmmaking (such as animation), while "movies about ___" is more where genres get messy.

I've already said this on a couple of reports that I've made today, but TMDb definition of the "Music" genre includes "any films in which music is a key element", which applies to literally every musical. The genre should either be added or included in Music.

.. which applies to literally every musical.

@hill89 That sounds good until you read the full quote from our rules:

The "Music" genre should only be used for concerts, music documentaries and any films in which music is a key element. We recommend using the "musical" keyword for musical films.

Thus, the music genre is not to be used for musicals. Reading can be tricky, I know, but this one was clear enough to avoid any deliberate misunderstandings.

The case of overlap would be Sound of Music where this musical is about teaching kids music. But for most other musicals, such as Wicked, South Pacific, Oklahoma, etc. these are just movies where there is a significant part of the movie that is sung by the cast but it is still a drama or whatever.

As I said before, considering how separated you wish to keep these (Music & Musical) and how prevalent musical is everywhere else I still wish to see this added as a genre.

lineker, I'm aware of the second part, but it contradicts what's considered acceptable in the first, thus kind of a confusing definition. Plus, the second part only says it's a recommendation. Considering musicals is one of the biggest genres of film, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be included or the Musical genre created.

Since you are the first person to not understand the meaning of that recommendation I changed the wording. Is it clear enough now?

There is a long backstory about this. If you use Google you should be able to find a discussion from a long time ago. After that discussion a decision was made to not include the musical genre and since then we promote the idea to use the keyword instead. It's not a perfect workaround, but it works. Maybe there will be a new genre discussion at some point but over the last years the word from up top is that the current genres will stay as is and no changes are coming. Which, again, is why we promote the keyword.

@lineker said:

the word from up top is that the current genres will stay as is and no changes are coming. Which, again, is why we promote the keyword.

I'm just trying to understand the philosophies and policies and I'm not trying to be difficult but this was posted earlier and I don't see an answer

@munpip214 said:

At what point would you transition a keyword to a genre?

Who would be the "up top" you refer to that would have a say so in when a genre is added? Is there a poll or comparison to another online source of info that would make the case to add another genre? I only have a couple of genres that you don't use but I find it odd that your list doesn't at least match the other prime sources of movie info for genres.

Thanks in advance for the info!

If you find the big discussion you will see who was/is in charge and made the final decision. It's not a secret. Some genres were removed, some were added. I was not very involved back then.

@lineker said:

If you find the big discussion you will see who was/is in charge and made the final decision. It's not a secret. Some genres were removed, some were added. I was not very involved back then.

Could you provide a link to the big discussion?

@NC_Bullseye said:

@lineker said:

If you find the big discussion you will see who was/is in charge and made the final decision. It's not a secret. Some genres were removed, some were added. I was not very involved back then.

Could you provide a link to the big discussion?

I found it: https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/51b5fe1a760ee359996a0e62

[I guess I was too slow :)] https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/51b5fe1a760ee359996a0e62

Looks like Travis initially listed a separate Musical genre. And I don’t see from discussion that it should be excluded. Also this was 2013 and other service providers have also changed genres too. As I stated earlier almost everyone has a Musicals genre.