Also, are we happy with the same job title appearing in multiple departments?

Having a department called "Crew" seems ripe for causing issues. What does Crew even mean? Does any company have a Crew department? 9 out of the 10 below have "Crew" in there. 8 only exist due to the inclusion of Crew.

Other:
Art, Camera, Costume & Make-Up, Crew, Directing, Editing, Lighting, Production, Sound, Writing

Art Direction:
Art, Crew

Dialogue Editor:
Editing, Sound

Digital Effects Producer:
Crew, Visual Effects

Property Master:
Art, Crew

Sound Recordist:
Crew, Sound

Stunt Double:
Actors, Crew

Supervising Art Director:
Art, Crew

Unit Production Manager:
Crew, Production

These are the job titles which currently sit under Other:
[   92] Actor's Assistant
[  452] Additional Dialogue
[  388] Additional Music
[  310] Additional Writing
[  138] Aerial Coordinator
[   58] Animal Coordinator
[   95] Animal Wrangler
[   61] Animatronic and Prosthetic Effects
[   41] Animatronics Designer
[   15] Animatronics Supervisor
[  707] Armorer
[   18] Armory Coordinator
[   10] Art Direction
[    1] Assistant Script
[   40] Associate Choreographer
[   64] Cableman
[  545] Carpenter
[    2] Catering
[  887] CG Supervisor
[   90] CGI Supervisor
[  134] Chef
[ 1593] Choreographer
[27899] Cinematography
[    6] Comic-Zeichner
[   68] Commissioning Editor
[   66] Compositor
[ 1602] Compositors
[  398] Craft Service
[  166] Creative Consultant
[  820] Creator
[    3] Department Administrator
[  379] Dialect Coach
[    6] Dialogue Coach
[   28] Digital Effects Producer
[  363] Digital Effects Supervisor
[   72] Digital Producer
[    1] Digital Supervisor
[   36] Documentation & Support
[    9] Dramaturgie
[   53] Dramaturgy
[  948] Driver
[  115] Drone Operator
[  150] Editorial Staff
[   17] Executive in Charge of Finance
[   98] Executive Music Producer
[   31] Executive Visual Effects Producer
[  146] Fight Choreographer
[    2] File Footage
[    1] Film Processor
[    8] Generator Operator
[   76] Graphic Novel Illustrator
[   56] In Memory Of
[   46] Information Systems Manager
[    1] Intern
[  222] Legal Services
[  180] Lighting Camera
[  222] Loader
[    1] Logistics Coordinator
[   64] Machinist
[ 1971] Makeup Effects
[   50] Manager of Operations
[   67] Marine Coordinator
[  197] Martial Arts Choreographer
[  122] Mix Technician
[  158] Mixing Engineer
[    9] Motion Actor
[   80] Motion Capture Artist
[  457] Other
[  131] Photoscience Manager
[  192] Picture Car Coordinator
[  248] Pilot
[  128] Poem
[  361] Post Production Assistant
[   61] Post Production Consulting
[    1] Post Production Scripts
[ 1492] Post Production Supervisor
[  305] Post-Production Manager
[  169] Presenter
[  130] Production Artist
[  263] Production Controller
[  231] Production Intern
[  977] Production Office Assistant
[  122] Projection
[  169] Prop Maker
[ 1440] Property Master
[  408] Propmaker
[  239] Public Relations
[   73] Pyrotechnician
[   14] Quality Control Supervisor
[   31] Radio Play
[    1] Redaktion
[  749] Scenic Artist
[   34] Schedule Coordinator
[  126] Score Engineer
[ 2290] Script
[   32] Second Film Editor
[  506] Second Unit
[  522] Second Unit Cinematographer
[  192] Security
[    1] Security Coordinator
[    2] Sequence Artist
[   55] Sequence Leads
[  182] Sequence Supervisor
[   15] Series Writer
[  239] Set Medic
[  464] Set Production Assistant
[   17] Set Production Intern
[   27] Sets & Props Artist
[   16] Sets & Props Supervisor
[  480] Software Engineer
[   55] Software Team Lead
[  183] Sound Design Assistant
[ 3393] Sound Recordist
[ 3553] Special Effects
[    7] Special Effects Assistant
[ 1706] Special Effects Coordinator
[   24] Special Effects Technician
[   40] Special Sound Effects
[  371] Stand In
[   31] Steadycam
[    2] Studio Teacher
[  178] Studio Teachers
[ 3816] Stunt Coordinator
[   14] Stunt Double
[    3] Stunt Driver
[ 5236] Stunts
[  216] Stunts Coordinator
[  308] Supervising Animator
[    3] Supervising Armorer
[   12] Supervising Art Director
[   67] Supervising Technical Director
[   55] Supervisor of Production Resources
[  613] Systems Administrators & Support
[   17] Tattooist
[   12] Technical Advisor
[  322] Technical Supervisor
[   57] Techno Crane Operator
[   49] Telecine Colorist
[   23] Temp Music Editor
[    6] Temp Sound Editor
[ 2579] Thanks
[  363] Title Graphics
[    1] Transcriptions
[  298] Translator
[  465] Transportation Captain
[  183] Transportation Co-Captain
[  901] Transportation Coordinator
[   28] treatment
[    1] Unit Medic
[   16] Unit Production Manager
[  755] Unit Publicist
[  229] Utility Stunts
[    1] Vehicles Wrangler
[  395] Video Assist Operator
[    2] Video Game
[  207] Visual Effects Art Director
[   31] Visual Effects Design Consultant
[ 1538] Visual Effects Editor
[    1] Weapons Master

This is the current list of Departments:
Actors
Art
Camera
Costume & Make-Up
Crew
Directing
Editing
Lighting
Production
Sound
Visual Effects
Writing

The fact that we have 27899 instances of Cinematography under "Other" is a bit unfortunate.

I don't have time to go through most of this right now but you might find this post of interest if you haven't already seen it: https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/598c3a70925141080100e601

I can provide TMDB IDs for the job titles which most likely shouldn't be there. They are certainly manageable enough numbers to be corrected by hand.

I think the biggest issue with credits is the lack of standardisation within the industry.

I do think the inclusion of the "Crew" department was a mistake though. Most of what is under it should be in one of the other departments.

The last time I looked into this, there was only 345 job titles and there was a bunch of German ones in there.

Hello Adi,

sorry, I'm late to this discussion due to some health issues. But I want to ask you 2 questions about the data you provided here! You can take your time - I'm still sooooo slowly in everything I do ...

1.) You wrote in your first post:

we have at least 678 job titles

How did you get to this number? I mean, what's your method to get to this number - 678?

I ask because the number of available jobs is much higher at the moment! 936 according to my count and method. I get this number this way:

1. I go to any crew edit page on TMDb, for example, this one: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/63247-westworld/edit?active_nav_item=crew.
   
2. I display the source code of this page in my browser.
   
3. I copy all currently available jobs in the line "var job_data_source = new kendo.data.DataSource".
   
4. I spend an hour plus/minus 15 minutes to format everything readable.
   

Last time I did this, I had a list of 936 available jobs -> that was in May (it almost matches the current number at the locale project): https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/5af310020e0a2668b100afe8.

So, I'm curious why we have 2 different numbers: 678 vs. 936?

I have a hunch: I think your number is the number of job titles that are/were used at least once here on TMDb in the past until today - my number is the number of all available job titles currently (or, in May, respectively). That would also mean that your list contains old jobs that are not available anymore -> which would be cool for us mods to use for fixing them in the future.

2.) I would like to investigate a few of the jobs that you mentioned and how this could've happened. Are you able to give me the person TMDb ID's for these people? That would be wonderful!

I'm interested in those jobs:

(_6) Comic-Zeichner
(_9) Dramaturgie
(_1) Produzent
(_1) Redaktion
(_1) Texte

Only these 5 jobs, actually. Can you provide me the person TMDb ID's for these jobs?

Those are my 2 questions. I could write a lot more about the problems you described, but I did this so many times in the other 2 threads regarding this topic - I'm tired of doing it again and again. But I'd be delighted if you could answer my 2 questions! Thank you!

My numbers will always be lower than it could be, since I don't bother downloading Adult, Video stuff and I also don't bother with stuff I already know to be concerts, sporting events etc. It only accounts for about 30,000 films, but it could certainly lose some job titles. Also, this is job titles purely for films. I don't bother with the TV stuff. My point wasn't to be exact, more that it was a surprisingly high number and thus it being in the 900 range is even worse :P

Will most TMDB IDs in my next post.

Comic-Zeichner: 24530, 24531, 57303, 37454, 69914, 66266
Dramaturgie: 2792, 74233, 22777, 22777, 74169, 51849, 141649, 1203569, 2333
Produzent: 13544
Redaktion: 1532078
Texte: 1159691

Hey Adi,

thanks for clarifying a lot of things for me - I didn't know many of these details!

My numbers will always be lower than it could be, since I don't bother downloading Adult, Video stuff and I also don't bother with stuff I already know to be concerts, sporting events etc. Also, this is job titles purely for films. I don't bother with the TV stuff.

I assume the difference in our numbers has more to do with our different methods and the fact that many of the job titles that Travis added in May 2018 are most likely not used until now in those 30,000 films you downloaded. Up until May, the number of available titles was around 450 - Travis doubled it. Your number is in the middle; I'm assuming it's still catching up with the new jobs that were added in May.

It only accounts for about 30,000 films, but it could certainly lose some job titles.

Okay, that means, in general, your findings are only a small portion of all possible occurances on TMDb and fixing those job titles by hand wouldn't mean we could get rid of all of them in the whole database. Your method is different -> you searched for the job titles that were already used in those 30,000 films, and these findings are a sum of current, still existing job titels plus job titels that were removed at some point in the past by Travis for whatever reason.

That last point is important: It's the reason why you can still find job titles like "Comic-Zeichner" in your downloaded data! You can't add "Comic-Zeichner" anymore because this job title was removed by Travis in January 2016. I just found out about this older thread:

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/52d43f7a760ee30e4e015799

I never knew about this before and how much work @lineker and @sp1ti put into this. On the other hand: I think it's insane to do this kind of work per hand when a machine could do this automatically. I assume that's possible for Travis, it's just a matter of finding the time to do it. That's the dilemma: A human moderator also wastes so much time doing this, but is also much slower doing it and by far not as accurate. Meaning, that's definitely a machine job!

However, what I would be interested in: Could you provide me a list of all 678 job titles from your data? I only need the list, not the occurances! If we compare this list with the current job list, we should be able to single out all the obsolete jobs in your data. I think that would help us a lot.

My point wasn't to be exact, more that it was a surprisingly high number and thus it being in the 900 range is even worse :P

I agree with you and wrote about this point in the other thread. I think adding more and more jobs is a huge mistake and won't solve the big conceptual problems regarding this matter. I stopped suggesting new job titles myself a long time ago, but there's already a new list of suggestions with another 730+ (!!!) new one's for the future. I'm afraid that's going to be a nightmare.

The main issue here is that this matter is very very low on Travis' agenda in general and the efforts to change this procedere fundamentally would be huge. I kind of understand Travis' point though, because the majority of people who use TMDb is not interested in this kind of specialized data. So, I have to live with the current mess, it's the only system we got and there are not much alternatives.

Will post TMDB IDs in my next post.

Thank you! This should be fixed quickly - I can do this in the next days when I find the time ... EDIT: All of the following are fixed!

Comic-Zeichner (6):

https://www.themoviedb.org/person/24530-ren-goscinny -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/11047-ast-rix-le-gaulois/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/24531-albert-uderzo -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/11047-ast-rix-le-gaulois/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/57303-masamune-shirow -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/11633/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/66266-mike-mignola -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/13204-hellboy-animated-blood-and-iron/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/69914-hermann-huppen -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/11567-die-bluthochzeit/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/37454-jean-van-hamme -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/11567-die-bluthochzeit/edit?active_nav_item=crew

Dramaturgie (9):

https://www.themoviedb.org/person/2333-harun-farocki -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/377560-as-if-we-were-somebody-else/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/2792-carl-mayer -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/4217-danton/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/22777-margot-beichler -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/12495-das-singende-klingende-b-umchen/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/22777-margot-beichler -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/13100-das-feuerzeug/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/74169-inge-w-ste-heym -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/13091-sechse-kommen-durch-die-welt/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/74233-marieluise-steinhauer -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/13101-das-kalte-herz/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/51849-manfred-wolter -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/7057-feuer-unter-deck//edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/141649-marion-wallroth -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/13297-die-geschichte-von-der-g-nseprinzessin-und-ihrem-treuen-pferd-falada/edit?active_nav_item=crew
https://www.themoviedb.org/person/1203569-konrad-kuhn -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/376702-arvo-p-rt-adam-s-passion/edit?active_nav_item=crew

Produzent (1):

https://www.themoviedb.org/person/13544-michael-smeaton -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/282671-f-r-immer-ein-m-rder-der-fall-ritter/edit?active_nav_item=crew

Redaktion (1):

https://www.themoviedb.org/person/1532078-g-nther-van-endert -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/282671-f-r-immer-ein-m-rder-der-fall-ritter/edit?active_nav_item=crew

Texte (1):

https://www.themoviedb.org/person/1159691-claude-martin -> https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/107395-les-amours-jaunes/edit?active_nav_item=crew