The Movie Database Support

Ever since the creation of the TV db there has really a distinct lack of guidance for it's content along with some missing implementations. One area where it has gotten especially noticeable for me is "Anime" - aka the cartoons from Japan. With one of the mods recently quitting that wanted to help in that area I think it is about time to tackle the issues. Now don't get me wrong, I do not want any "special" treatment for this type of content per se but guidelines addressing the issues that come up when entering it here. Currently it's just random depending on who is entering stuff (which is at a low standard for anime anyways) and I mostly limit myself to just clean up a little once it affects me (via trakt).

See some discussion points below. I didn't feel like writing it all out again so I linked some threads there. I'm sure there are things I forgot about just now.

Shows vs Productions Anime is usually aired in cours, which is a three-month long television season. Sequels and the like always get a new title for a cour and can have completely different staff and studios behind them (along with production committees, etc.). For those reasons you find the entries in anime specific databases separate to each other. Western sites do however treat them as a main show with seasons (tvdb, tvrage, etc.). Going by the discussions linked below it was never established as to how TMDB wants to go along with it. At the moment you can find single seasons in the DB however most shows are "westernized" given the db dump...

Anime production? (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05 / https://washiblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/anime-production-detailed-guide-to-how-anime-is-made-and-the-talent-behind-it/ / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wMqH0sJ-zE)

➥ Easy decision to make. Either separate them and clean up all existing data or keep them as it is (season titles help here).

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/575c3f17c3a3685d8000063e, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/586fbfa7c3a3686dc7004c34, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/5869a1c09251414e7a011dc4

Absolute numbers I'm sure you encountered this more than enough. Certain shows are just continuing on like One Piece. TVDB, Wikipedia, etc. do arc splits for them; TMDB has also taken over this practice (unofficially). Unlike TVDB you do not however not carry absolute numbers. So in case of One Piece the first episode of Season 16 is number 632 (or smth) in your DB... certainly doesn't make sense. Then there are other shows like Gintama that get released on streaming sites per absolute numbers but actually carry cour titles which anime dbs separate for the numbering (http://thexem.de/xem/show/305).

➥ Decide on arc splits, deal properly with absolute numbers.

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/575b883dc3a3684841000353, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/5759c7dfc3a3684ea9002c1b

Split cour In recent years we saw more "split cours", aka shows that get their second half with a season gap in between. TVDB has decided to merge them together, anime dbs do however split them. A good example for this would be Durarara with three separate cours for season two (x2: Shou, Ten and Ketsu).

➥ Do you want to merge split cours? You'll find both practices in the db...

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/54bd63bdc3a3681421007ede (here is me getting it done the old tvdb way... s1 is a mess)

OVAs etc OVAs are disc releases of anime. TVDB for example does not allow them in their DB unless they can be paired with a show. They can be standalone series (only 2-3 episodes long) but also unaired episodes for tv shows. In plenty of cases when they're unaired episodes they're not bundled with the shows actual disc release but for example their original manga. It goes so far that those episodes then get labeled as say "Episode 14". The TV section also needs the adult tag for hentai content (last example)

➥ Are they welcomed in the DB? Where do you put standalones (movie, shows)? Can they become an additional season of a show? Can they be part of a season`that aired on TV?

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/5873f0559251410e6d010d3e, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/575c3f17c3a3685d8000063e, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/589714cf9251415a5b012b61

Rebroadcasts Apparently there are no rules as to how to deal with edited rebroadcasts of shows in the US. At least it looks like that.

➥ I mean this is easy for me... Just don't allow those entries like recuts of movies etc.

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/54ac29fa9251415679004145

Various luckily we're getting rid of mini-series https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/56aca3e9c3a3681c340054d5...

Things that will also greatly help here:

118 replies (on page 7 of 8)

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Yes, the new system will support groups being regional. Regional DVD, digital, even theoretically, network air date data, although that might not make it in for v1.

@mihawk90 said:

@alltimemarr said:

I like it! Its not like the current season art is correct anyway. If you want correct art. We have to split it by volume (like up to four EPS per probably). For regular anime i always add all volume art to the season level.

With Volume I assume you mean DVD/BD Box sets, if that is not the case ignore the following.

You end up with the same issue that TVDB has had for years tho.

Different countries have different DVD/BD Box releases, sometimes re-releases that have a different amount of episodes per disc/box. IMO TMDB/TVDB are not the right place for a sorting like this, there are specialised websites that do this sort of thing already. And yes People should have choice and all, but I think TVDB pretty much abandoned the whole disc release thing quite some time ago (the input field for it is still there though), because it's just too much to handle really.

Then again if this is going to be a system where there could be a (theoretically) infinite number of alternate sortings this wouldn't be an issue either (TVDB has that issue mainly because they only provide a single field for DVD Order).

Yeah thats what i meant since Travis mentioned season art, but you are totally correct.

I don’t know about infinite. Maybe there will only be a few set orders to choose to add. Like one dvd, one original tv order, one Netflix etc. We will need to see about the details! And i doubt how Many people will actually set a dvd volume order split thing. 😂

I'm jumping deep into the tail end of this discussion, and knowing how my opinion weighs in, I think this update would give a lot of flexibility to the TV section. When you are doing all the work on this, I must ask, do you plan to support the 600x600 [Square] artwork format?

@sp1ti said:

Season 0 is for specials, nothing else. Travis has already mentioned what he plans to do so we just have to wait...

The format as Super has it is terrible though... S1 has all the episode and the rest is split (as on TVDB). Way to ruin a database really. Funi is providing clear arc and season breaks so I don't see why they're not being followed.

A long time ago, there was no rule. It was done to see how it played. Since the folks who release subs number them in absolute, the only way to get the correct numbering by season/cour would be to physically count through the season/cour. I'd love for you to provide input on how the current system would make that simple to do. I did end up using the production code to add that, but that isn't a solution.

Are you Talking about here being no rules on tmdb a long time ago? :confused:

@alltimemarr said:

Are you Talking about here being no rules on tmdb a long time ago? :confused:

I was unclear. There were no rules on how the formatting was to occur for anime mentioned in the original post. before I engaged here initially I looked and just so happened to have stumbled across this thread by shear luck.

@irkillroy said:

When you are doing all the work on this, I must ask, do you plan to support the 600x600 [Square] artwork format?

Heh, not that this work is really related to image support in any way, I do believe I'll be enabling support for square images at some point in the near future. :thumbsup_tone2:

@irkillroy said:

@sp1ti said:

Season 0 is for specials, nothing else. Travis has already mentioned what he plans to do so we just have to wait...

The format as Super has it is terrible though... S1 has all the episode and the rest is split (as on TVDB). Way to ruin a database really. Funi is providing clear arc and season breaks so I don't see why they're not being followed.

A long time ago, there was no rule. It was done to see how it played. Since the folks who release subs number them in absolute, the only way to get the correct numbering by season/cour would be to physically count through the season/cour. I'd love for you to provide input on how the current system would make that simple to do. I did end up using the production code to add that, but that isn't a solution.

It's not like I kept silent and done things however I wanted here. There is a reason why I asked for absolute numbers for example.... As for DBS I figured the official artwork shows the splits, at least it looks like that (can't be bothered to VPN for Funi since they block any non-supported regions).

@travisbell said:

This will just be an additional field, correct?

Yes, but it's not so much an additional field as it is going to be a new way to create custom groups of episodes. It's purely optional and most series in the DB won't have a use for custom episode groups but for those who do (there are more cases than just anime), we can create a whole new group. When I say "episode group" think high level like seasons, DVD order, or absolute order. Another example because I just saw it would be how Netflix categorizes Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. They have the episodes split into 4 custom named "collections" (First Cup, Light & Sweet, Just Made a Fresh Pot and Late Night Espresso). This grouping would be supported here now as well and be tied to Netflix.

Pretty much TVDBs V2

Does that mean you would not merge split cours into a single season like for example: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/42410-durarara/season/2 > being "Durarara!!x2 Shou" E1-12, Durarara!!x2 Ten E13-24, Durarara!!x2 Ketsu E25-36? https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/61259/seasons > (here split AND as a single season) being Aldnoah.Zero & Aldnoah.Zero "2nd Season" (it was clear that it was a single "production" and the 2nd Season subtitle wasn't always used)?

I'm going to defer and ask you, what do you think makes the most sense? If we are going to support cours as "seasons", should splits cours be merged? It kind of feels like they should be merged but maybe I am thinking of it backwards.

I have my bias but I would merge them if that is what also is followed on the official pages and they belong together.

I have my bias but I would merge them if that is what also is followed on the official pages and they belong together.

Yes, that was my gut instinct as well.

So episode groups was soft launched last night. I have a few small tasks to complete but the gist is, you can now create custom groupings. Some examples that have been added already (look next to the "Last Season" block):

Now I have a question about what this whole thread is about. Since we decided cours should be treated as named seasons, is cour still a needed group type? I think it is right? For a show like One Piece, which we will move to be a single absolute order season, we still want the ability to create cour groups. Right? Just making sure before I add it.

Consider me impressed you already did something there :clap_tone1:

Now I have a question about what this whole thread is about. Since we decided cours should be treated as named seasons, is cour still a needed group type? I think it is right? For a show like One Piece, which we will move to be a single absolute order season, we still want the ability to create cour groups. Right? Just making sure before I add it.

For One Piece there isn't a differentiation between the annual cours... the show just continues on and no one would really care about that. People are looking to have the story arcs together there since they travel to various islands, do shit and then travel on, repeat (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Story_Arcs). This is already available r/n from what I can see (I would name the option "Story Arcs" imho to make it more clear). :thumbsup_tone2:

The better example would be DRRR!! from above. One grouping should be based on the actual TV cours. "Cour" is however quite specialized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cours) so maybe we could name it something related to "production"/"project"?

Consider me impressed you already did something there

:bow_tone2: I get to everything with enough time :wink:

This is already available r/n from what I can see (I would name the option "Story Arcs" imho to make it more clear).

Ok, perfect, that is more clear to me as well. It's a bit more generic which is potentially good for other content too.

The better example would be DRRR!! from above. One grouping should be based on the actual TV cours. "Cour" is however quite specialized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cours) so maybe we could name it something related to "production"/"project"?

I already have a "production" type, I guess that would suffice for DRRR!!?

Wasn't sure if you already added that after posting or not. Did one example for a thing I just reported a duplicate for: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/62104-nanatsu-no-taizai/episode_group/5ad0d91a92514138fa00b650
(after the last season a movie would follow, so what Marr mentioned with them getting out of specials would actually be a good thing bc I would not know where to assign that unless we could add specials inbetween the groups :))

So the same would work for DRRR, yes :)!

I know it's not done but quick input:

  • A comment field would be useful for this. Ex. why is Firefly in that "intended" order. The layout seems to accompany space for this right now.
  • Sorting by Seasons or Episodes is not working. Default order is also jumbled up.
  • When an item is in the group (when editing) it would still be useful to know in which season it was and what episode.
  • Maybe airdates somewhere when editing?
  • I guess you also planned for images which is great (also translations?).
  • Perma links slugs are planned?
  • The feedback on the "save changes" button is not great (only when it's actually saving something).
  • Double click to move would be godly.
  • The styling of the selector is imho a bit odd. I would actually prefer to have the groups listed next to them as a sort of selector (maybe in style of the save button?).

A comment field would be useful for this. Ex. why is Firefly in that "intended" order. The layout seems to accompany space for this right now.

Ya, a comment field would be easy to add.

Sorting by Seasons or Episodes is not working. Default order is also jumbled up.

I assume we're talking about the add episode page? If so, @banana_girl has already asked me to group them by "season number episode number" which I think I agree with. You'll still be able able to sort them properly but it's a bit easier to read I think. I seem to be able to sort by these columns ok, but I'll look at it when I change the value.

When an item is in the group (when editing) it would still be useful to know in which season it was and what episode.

I can add the season/episode number combination to the episode titles in the list.

I guess you also planned for images which is great (also translations?).

Yes, both will happen eventually.

Perma links slugs are planned?

Probably not at the moment.

The feedback on the "save changes" button is not great (only when it's actually saving something).

Sure, I'll add the usual "Saved" notification.

Double click to move would be godly.

Hmmm. Not sure if that is easy or hard to do. Let me look into it.

The styling of the selector is imho a bit odd. I would actually prefer to have the groups listed next to them as a sort of selector (maybe in style of the save button?).

I assume you're talking about the "Move Selected Items" button? Due to the way the grids work I can't really move it. A couple things worth mentioning, you can select multiple episodes at once. Two ways, if you know you want to select say 10 in order, select one, hold shift and then click the last episode. It will select all 10. The other way is to do it individually with your CTRL key. At least I think it's the CTRL key, on Mac OS it's the COMMAND key, not sure which key it is on Windows. I don't have a Windows machine here to test it on...

@travisbell said:

Sorting by Seasons or Episodes is not working. Default order is also jumbled up.

I assume we're talking about the add episode page? If so, @banana_girl has already asked me to group them by "season number episode number" which I think I agree with. You'll still be able able to sort them properly but it's a bit easier to read I think. I seem to be able to sort by these columns ok, but I'll look at it when I change the value.

My assumption would be to have the secondary sorting done also by numbers. Right now it's done by neither... somehow (https://i.imgur.com/9ecyWWL.png standard order)?

When an item is in the group (when editing) it would still be useful to know in which season it was and what episode.

I can add the season/episode number combination to the episode titles in the list.

Yes, please .)

The styling of the selector is imho a bit odd. I would actually prefer to have the groups listed next to them as a sort of selector (maybe in style of the save button?).

I assume you're talking about the "Move Selected Items" button? Due to the way the grids work I can't really move it. A couple things worth mentioning, you can select multiple episodes at once. Two ways, if you know you want to select say 10 in order, select one, hold shift and then click the last episode. It will select all 10. The other way is to do it individually with your CTRL key. At least I think it's the CTRL key, on Mac OS it's the COMMAND key, not sure which key it is on Windows. I don't have a Windows machine here to test it on...

Sorry, was a bit unclear. I meant on the show overview. https://i.imgur.com/HycFdOd.png

Noticed the multiselect when I was trying to select the title for copying (which this disables). CTRL and Shift are self-explanatory^ (at least to me).

Anyways, I let some of the other users here give their opinions on this. For me this would work, esp. once it is possible the query them also in the API. :hearts:

I did some basic testing with these for anyone who just wants to check some examples besides those from Travis:
https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/63663-gate/episode_group/5ad0ddf90e0a26303c00ae06 split cour
https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/42410-durarara/episode_group/5ad0d887c3a368259f00c8e7
https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/62104-nanatsu-no-taizai/episode_group/5ad0d91a92514138fa00b650 inclusion of an OVA mini-series
https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/37854/episode_group/5ad0df1cc3a36825ac00c087 only started with the detailed arcs, maybe saga would be better anyways or people are going to maintain two orders? (too much of a hassle to do this fully since the sorting is not yet great)
https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/46195/episode_group/5ad0ec240e0a26303f00d84d source material groupings

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