The Movie Database Support

Ever since the creation of the TV db there has really a distinct lack of guidance for it's content along with some missing implementations. One area where it has gotten especially noticeable for me is "Anime" - aka the cartoons from Japan. With one of the mods recently quitting that wanted to help in that area I think it is about time to tackle the issues. Now don't get me wrong, I do not want any "special" treatment for this type of content per se but guidelines addressing the issues that come up when entering it here. Currently it's just random depending on who is entering stuff (which is at a low standard for anime anyways) and I mostly limit myself to just clean up a little once it affects me (via trakt).

See some discussion points below. I didn't feel like writing it all out again so I linked some threads there. I'm sure there are things I forgot about just now.

Shows vs Productions Anime is usually aired in cours, which is a three-month long television season. Sequels and the like always get a new title for a cour and can have completely different staff and studios behind them (along with production committees, etc.). For those reasons you find the entries in anime specific databases separate to each other. Western sites do however treat them as a main show with seasons (tvdb, tvrage, etc.). Going by the discussions linked below it was never established as to how TMDB wants to go along with it. At the moment you can find single seasons in the DB however most shows are "westernized" given the db dump...

Anime production? (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05 / https://washiblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/anime-production-detailed-guide-to-how-anime-is-made-and-the-talent-behind-it/ / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wMqH0sJ-zE)

➥ Easy decision to make. Either separate them and clean up all existing data or keep them as it is (season titles help here).

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/575c3f17c3a3685d8000063e, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/586fbfa7c3a3686dc7004c34, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/5869a1c09251414e7a011dc4

Absolute numbers I'm sure you encountered this more than enough. Certain shows are just continuing on like One Piece. TVDB, Wikipedia, etc. do arc splits for them; TMDB has also taken over this practice (unofficially). Unlike TVDB you do not however not carry absolute numbers. So in case of One Piece the first episode of Season 16 is number 632 (or smth) in your DB... certainly doesn't make sense. Then there are other shows like Gintama that get released on streaming sites per absolute numbers but actually carry cour titles which anime dbs separate for the numbering (http://thexem.de/xem/show/305).

➥ Decide on arc splits, deal properly with absolute numbers.

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/575b883dc3a3684841000353, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/5759c7dfc3a3684ea9002c1b

Split cour In recent years we saw more "split cours", aka shows that get their second half with a season gap in between. TVDB has decided to merge them together, anime dbs do however split them. A good example for this would be Durarara with three separate cours for season two (x2: Shou, Ten and Ketsu).

➥ Do you want to merge split cours? You'll find both practices in the db...

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/54bd63bdc3a3681421007ede (here is me getting it done the old tvdb way... s1 is a mess)

OVAs etc OVAs are disc releases of anime. TVDB for example does not allow them in their DB unless they can be paired with a show. They can be standalone series (only 2-3 episodes long) but also unaired episodes for tv shows. In plenty of cases when they're unaired episodes they're not bundled with the shows actual disc release but for example their original manga. It goes so far that those episodes then get labeled as say "Episode 14". The TV section also needs the adult tag for hentai content (last example)

➥ Are they welcomed in the DB? Where do you put standalones (movie, shows)? Can they become an additional season of a show? Can they be part of a season`that aired on TV?

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/5873f0559251410e6d010d3e, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/575c3f17c3a3685d8000063e, https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/589714cf9251415a5b012b61

Rebroadcasts Apparently there are no rules as to how to deal with edited rebroadcasts of shows in the US. At least it looks like that.

➥ I mean this is easy for me... Just don't allow those entries like recuts of movies etc.

https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/54ac29fa9251415679004145

Various luckily we're getting rid of mini-series https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/56aca3e9c3a3681c340054d5...

Things that will also greatly help here:

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I guess not? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Just noticed another OVA getting deleted (this time it was https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/376397-blood-lad)... someone seems to have an opinion on this.

I haven't had any time to look into/think about any of this. I'll see if I can find some time next week.

tbh I was not expecting a quick reply, just was a bit disappointed to find another dead record without a public report on it (that was freshly deleted unless I missed it on my last update call).

thank you Travis.

ffs, another OVA deleted since my last post... https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/256955-sword-art-online-extra-edition (https://myanimelist.net/anime/20021) awesome mods (no public report)!

It's probably not as easy as you make it seems. There are a lot of things to think about including a few technical issues. I know OP spent many, many hours on it, but I don't think she found a workable solution.

ffs, another OVA deleted since my last post...

I think the general consensus right now is that OVA/unaired episodes/special episodes belong in the Specials. :/

It's probably not as easy as you make it seems. There are a lot of things to think about including a few technical issues.

The only technical issues I can think of are 1) absolute numbers and 2) season production info (if the Western format is used). As mentioned there are certainly some other weird cases but anime are just Japanese cartoons, shouldn't be that much different when entering them in the db. TVDB has had them for years with clear moderation stances (except for arcs/split cour).

I think the general consensus right now is that OVA/unaired episodes/special episodes belong in the Specials. :/

The OVA status (video) makes them clear disk releases and as mentioned not necessarily those of a tv show. The OVA above is sold as one separate release http://www.swordart-onlineusa.com/sao1/package/bluray-ee.html. It's not the best example of 'original' content but by broad comparison this would mean that something like the "Dead Like Me" movie or "24: Redemption" would also need to be a special and not a movie... So that OVA consensus is not one I can follow.

I know OP spent many, many hours on it

OP made quite a few edits for this type of content but I can't say how many of those hours went into thinking about policies (not visible to me). The one thing that was made clear however was that any outreach for the latter was met with no help/response..:

"There is a stunning lack of consistency that vastly hampers the usefulness of the database. This is mainly because the vast majority of staff (and many of the users) here know nothing about anime and therefore the records here are done 500 different ways. I am one person and have tried my very, very best to make things vaguely accurate in the face of data that is, for the most part, organized completely incorrectly. The amount of data that needs to be changed, all by hand, is stunningly overwhelming, and I've not even got permission to do it."

"Here, it's a free-for-all. I've talked 'til I'm blue in the face with other staff about some of the problems (as you said, zero rules that actually apply to these types of works)"

Orangeprincess has indeed also been trying to come to a concensus about how to deal with such things. Unfortunately, I don't really know if we're that much further.

Shows vs Productions: Yeah, I'm kinda leaning towards separating them, that's where my vote would go at least. Sometimes there's more than a year in between such sequels.
Split cour: I would say split those to a new season.

OVAs: I think those right now mostly go into specials indeed :| At least the "last episode bundled with BD/Manga/games/whatever. (Speaking of which, I deleted the SAO Extra Edition entry, thinking it was another last episode released on BD/DVD.) I don't think it should be a seperate season though, but it is true that it makes the specials super cluttered.
Even a short anime like idolm@ster has six specials;
https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/63463/season/0
But I barely dare to look at One Piece or those other longrunning shows.
I've mentioned this before, but seperate entries with some sort of linking method (kind of like collections) for movies, shows et cetera is totally on my wishlist :-P

An adult tag for hentai is much needed indeed, because right now I don't know if it is allowed, as it seems to get deleted lots too:
https://www.themoviedb.org/talk/589714cf9251415a5b012b61

Shows vs Productions: Yeah, I'm kinda leaning towards separating them, that's where my vote would go at least. Sometimes there's more than a year in between such sequels.

But you yourself said sequel, shouldn't that make them another season ;)? - I really do not want to make them the exception to the rule. I mean it isn't just anime that isn't clearly decided on but also just regular TV:

  • The recent Gilmore Girls season was also not a timely continuation... On TMDB it's S8 of the main show, a separate show and also a mini-series in the movie section. The Arrested Development season on Netflix is however only on the main show.
  • American Dad does have the network switch season like the current network site https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/1433-american-dad/season/11 (3 episodes in a season) - but no where in the wiki is a single line as to what is official and what not (and if the official website counts then there is the answer for split cours).
  • No idea if Networks just buy from Production companies or have contracts with them but for American Dad it changed from FOX to TBS. Or smth like Buffy going from WB > UPN. Shouldn't they then get split too?

I just want things to make sense :)...

Speaking of which, I deleted the SAO Extra Edition entry, thinking it was another last episode released on BD/DVD.) I don't think it should be a seperate season though, but it is true that it makes the specials super cluttered.

But wouldn't TMDB's video rule not allow all of that content in the movie section anyways? A single special like the one of SAO as a "production entity" would be more fitting there tbh. The specials are commonly used as such by folks that like to catalog digital collections who are too lazy to add a fresh entry anyways.

I've mentioned this before, but seperate entries with some sort of linking method (kind of like collections) for movies, shows et cetera is totally on my wishlist :-P

Sure, a relationship mapping would be useful to link movies and shows but I highly doubt it will come. For 99% of the content it isn't something that would be needed.

The recent Gilmore Girls season was also not a timely continuation... On TMDB it's S8 of the main show, a separate show and also a mini-series in the movie section.

There might be exceptions, but we usually try to mirror the networks. Netflix released the new Gilmore Girls episodes as a new TV series and we did too. As you can see from the change history, it was deleted a few times and re-added by random users : https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/4586-gilmore-girls/changes

No idea if Networks just buy from Production companies or have contracts with them but for American Dad it changed from FOX to TBS. Or smth like Buffy going from WB > UPN. Shouldn't they then get split too?

Generally, no. It's still the same TV series, they rarely start from scratch. (other recent ex: Nashville, Supergirl, Community)

There might be exceptions, but we usually try to mirror the networks.

I can take away that all mods have some ideas but it feels to me like they are not always in sync or are 100% confident that they're correct and you can't except contributors to study the forums to find out what's "TMDB right". My posts might make it obvious but I would love to see a more detailed wiki when it comes to such things (it's three years overdue). It might not affect a majority of shows but unlike TVDB where mods often are taking shit due to enforcing the rules TMDB is just one happy place where everyone is left to do as they please... be it people adding back Gilmore Girls Season 8 or something like Mythbusters just carrying duplicate content.

Gilmore Girls

In hindsight maybe not the best example given the detached nature of that mini-series.

Anyways, I'm interested to hear from Travis down the road :)...

I know that Travis has been busy with the new users signing-up but this is still unresolved and I'm not sure this is even reflected in the upcoming "contribution bible". :disappointed:
In April a new slab of shows and sequels is once again released so maybe those can at least be added properly and in unison.

I'm just throwing an idea out there, but as we're big fans of the how it was originally released and you guys know this stuff better than us... what if you and a few others teamed up to try to build guidelines that could work? :thinking:

@banana_girl said:

I'm just throwing an idea out there, but as we're big fans of the how it was originally released and you guys know this stuff better than us... what if you and a few others teamed up to try to build guidelines that could work? :thinking:

One deciding factor would still be what changes to the db structure could be made. For example absolute numbers or production companies at a season level. I mentioned some of my opinions and ideas in the OP but judging from the feedback chain/subscribers not many anime contributors are actually aware of this thread or even think that something might be off :neutral_face: (and from the few that exist it's almost impossible to point out seasoned regulars who are not mods sadly)

I strongly agree with sp1ti that the anime section here should try to mirror what the TVDB does for the most part in terms of how they handle cours, second seasons, OVAs, etc. The biggest advantage of that system is that it is a lot more conducive to organizing media libraries and providing a parallel to how Western tv is aired. The MAL/AniDB system is alright for adding more details and information, however, it is incredibly difficult to organize a media library by that standard.

@sp1ti Check your email.