I noticed the. First film leaves that to the imagenation.

Big holes. Too much info left out! We were supposed to be permanently baffled! It was never originally supposed to have any sequel! See my postings!

I never saw the original film in its entirety, as I find this franchise to be possibly racist. However, I noticed that maybe the last image in the film is of part of The Statue of Liberty, while I think the main character screams at it in horror. I think they just meant for the film's end to be really upsetting.

My man Rod Serling ("The Twilight Zone") had a hand in the writing of this... he was really good for that kind of surrealistic provocation.

@CelluloidFan said:

I never saw the original film in its entirety, as I find this franchise to be possibly racist.

Please elaborate.

@GusGorman said:

@CelluloidFan said:

I never saw the original film in its entirety, as I find this franchise to be possibly racist.

Please elaborate.

Are you serious?

I won't sit through a whole "Apes" movie, because on some level, I find the effects that some of the actors wear to be mildly offensive.

Do not blame me for the conversation going in this direction of Cell!

@CelluloidFan said:

@GusGorman said:

@CelluloidFan said:

I never saw the original film in its entirety, as I find this franchise to be possibly racist.

Please elaborate.

Are you serious?

I won't sit through a whole "Apes" movie, because on some level, I find the effects that some of the actors wear to be mildly offensive.

What was it about the Oscar winning make up effects that offended you?

Everyone see my postings on POTA they are very interesting!

@GusGorman said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@GusGorman said:

@CelluloidFan said:

I never saw the original film in its entirety, as I find this franchise to be possibly racist.

Please elaborate.

Are you serious?

I won't sit through a whole "Apes" movie, because on some level, I find the effects that some of the actors wear to be mildly offensive.

What was it about the Oscar winning make up effects that offended you?

Not quite sure!

@Benton12 said:

Do not blame me for the conversation going in this direction of Cell!

In my experience, I've found that when a thread goes off in a different direction or directions, it may last longer.

It is nice when a movie or novel leaves a few details out. It allows an imaginative mind to fill in the details.

My supposition when watching this movie was that apes evolved while humans, with their decadent proclivities, lost their technological edge.

Other explanations are certainly possible.

@CelluloidFan said:

I never saw the original film in its entirety, as I find this franchise to be possibly racist. However, I noticed that maybe the last image in the film is of part of The Statue of Liberty, while I think the main character screams at it in horror. I think they just meant for the film's end to be really upsetting.

My man Rod Serling ("The Twilight Zone") had a hand in the writing of this... he was really good for that kind of surrealistic provocation.

There are racist undertones to the franchise to be sure, but they were intended to point out some of the problems our society has with racism. By having the humans be the oppressed species, it allows us, the viewers, to have a more sympathetic eye towards what had been done and what continues to be done to people based solely on the color of their skin.

One of my friends, who is black, does like this film. He did notice something I had not. The darker skinned apes (the gorillas) are the warrior class. They are the brutes who are manipulated by the lighter skinned orangutans to enforce the law and order.

I found it interesting but mildly flawed. The chimps, who we are meant to sympathize with the most, are also dark skinned and are intellectually superior to both the gorillas and orangutans. Their intellect does not help them over much. The orangutans are much more politically savvy and are able to harness the strength of the gorillas to inflict their will on the entirety of the world. They are essentially the politicians and religious leaders. The chimps are the scientists who are also used as tools (often unwillingly).

I do not believe that skin color was an overt factor in the movie.

The humans were the stand ins for the exploited underclass (who were and still are predominantly people of color).

The racist undertones were designed to make you feel uncomfortable. I don't believe racism was glorified in this franchise.

@sukhisoo said:

@CelluloidFan said:

I never saw the original film in its entirety, as I find this franchise to be possibly racist. However, I noticed that maybe the last image in the film is of part of The Statue of Liberty, while I think the main character screams at it in horror. I think they just meant for the film's end to be really upsetting.

My man Rod Serling ("The Twilight Zone") had a hand in the writing of this... he was really good for that kind of surrealistic provocation.

There are racist undertones to the franchise to be sure, but they were intended to point out some of the problems our society has with racism. By having the humans be the oppressed species, it allows us, the viewers, to have a more sympathetic eye towards what had been done and what continues to be done to people based solely on the color of their skin.

Although I never watched the movie in full, I did perceive that M.O. at work there.

One of my friends, who is black, does like this film. He did notice something I had not. The darker skinned apes (the gorillas) are the warrior class. They are the brutes who are manipulated by the lighter skinned orangutans to enforce the law and order.

I found it interesting but mildly flawed. The chimps, who we are meant to sympathize with the most, are also dark skinned and are intellectually superior to both the gorillas and orangutans. Their intellect does not help them over much. The orangutans are much more politically savvy and are able to harness the strength of the gorillas to inflict their will on the entirety of the world. They are essentially the politicians and religious leaders. The chimps are the scientists who are also used as tools (often unwillingly).

That's interesting, sukhi... now I did notice that there were different colored, um, apes in the movie. However, I never bothered to get into the movie enough to get all that from it. It seems that if one buys into the film's initial premise or currency of black people as apes, there's a whole mess of jacked up ideas to wade through in it, hmm?

I do not believe that skin color was an overt factor in the movie.

Why not?

The humans were the stand ins for the exploited underclass (who were and still are predominantly people of color).

Right again...

The racist undertones were designed to make you feel uncomfortable. I don't believe racism was glorified in this franchise.

Damn... maybe Rod Serling isn't so much my man as I'd thought he was... what are your thoughts on his work?

@CelluloidFan said:

Damn... maybe Rod Serling isn't so much my man as I'd thought he was... what are your thoughts on his work?

The Twilight Zone frequently makes social commentary. Race is sometimes an issue. There is an episode (forgive the fact that I don't have the titles memorized) where George Takei and Neville Brand hate each other based solely on the color of each others skin. It ends badly for both of them.

I have never seen an episode where racism is portrayed in a positive light. The underlying racism in Planet of the Apes is negatively depicted. In my eyes, this elevates Rod Serling. Not only is he capable of creating surrealistic scenarios that bend the mind a little, he can sneak some observations about contemporary society in his works.

Now if I thought Planet of the Apes glorified the racism that is encoded into the film, I would be with you completely. I don't think that it does. It condemns it.

"A sickness known as hate. Not a virus, not a microbe, not a germ—but a sickness nonetheless, highly contagious, deadly in its effects. Don't look for it in the Twilight Zone—look for it in a mirror. Look for it before the light goes out altogether."

--Rod Serling

Now see, this is why I feel you need to ask yourself, do I have a window into the black experience, before you come at us, questioning us.

So, the light-skinned apes, symbolic of light-skinned black people, are the bad guys in this film who manipulate the darker apes (meaning dark-skinned black folks) and keep them under their thumbs, and you’re telling me to look in the mirror for hatred?! Correct me if I’m wrong about the facts of this film, please.

Check your non-black privilege.