@dogfromsuburbsandtrainer said:

@movie_nazi said:

Except I didn't really dig the last story. Not exactly sure what they were going for there but it left me with a "meh" feeling.

the last story needs immense watching which only comes with strenuous training. only then will you get it. i can train you to the fullest but are you ready ?, broken umbrella

Oh shit, this sounds like it might be one of those rabbit hole film theories ala a Twin Peaks discussion. I'm in.

Japan did some wild horror films in the 60’s. Onibaba was good, too. Also Woman in the Dunes. I also recall an insane Dr. Moreau -inspired film called Horrors of Malformed Men.

@movie_nazi said:

@dogfromsuburbsandtrainer said:

@movie_nazi said:

Except I didn't really dig the last story. Not exactly sure what they were going for there but it left me with a "meh" feeling.

the last story needs immense watching which only comes with strenuous training. only then will you get it. i can train you to the fullest but are you ready ?, broken umbrella

Oh shit, this sounds like it might be one of those rabbit hole film theories ala a Twin Peaks discussion. I'm in.

For real dude I was also underwhelmed by the last segment, but on 2nd watch it packs a lotta meaning. Curious to know if anyone else wants to discuss this. If we're talking about the cup of tea segment (it's been a while, I hope that's the one we're talking about), it's a really trippy display of multiple storytelling levels. iirc it's about a struggling storyteller who's trying to finish a story but he keeps getting lost. Then he comes up with the cup of tea story about a bizarre pot of tea that seems to contain the soul of a man.

Within this story (which is within the story of the storyteller, which is within the story of Kwaidan) a 2nd man is haunted by the soul in the tea pot, and long story short eventually ends up trapped himself ...or so it would seem but (returning to the 2nd level) the storyteller doesn't finish. Ultimately we learn that the storyteller himself has gotten trapped in a pot of tea.

I don't think it's stretching the imagination too far to interpret this as a metaphor for being "lost" within fiction & fantasy. But beyond that it poses the head trippy idea that we are each characters lost within a fiction created by someone else--or even ourselves. If this makes any sense (it barely makes sense to me, but philosophers have written volumes on this subject) I highly recommend "Synecdoche, NY" about a playwright who decides to stage a play about his own life and ends up creating an entire fictional world inside a warehouse, and this fictional world overlaps & intersects his real world on multiple levels until he himself is "lost" and I think he ends up playing a minor character in his own life, or something like that.

The cup of tea story is along that same theme, sorta like the grandfather film of Synecdoche, Being John Malkovich, Adaptation and all the trippy Kaufman/Jonze films that dealt with overlapping concentric realities. Can't remember if it was Kant or one of those philosophers who first proposed the big "R" little "r" theory of "Reality/reality" but if anyone remembers that stuff I think it touches on that theme too (I flunked philosophy 101 so don't ask me).

@rooprect said: For real dude I was also underwhelmed by the last segment, but on 2nd watch it packs a lotta meaning. Curious to know if anyone else wants to discuss this. If we're talking about the cup of tea segment (it's been a while, I hope that's the one we're talking about), it's a really trippy display of multiple storytelling levels. iirc it's about a struggling storyteller who's trying to finish a story but he keeps getting lost. Then he comes up with the cup of tea story about a bizarre pot of tea that seems to contain the soul of a man.

Within this story (which is within the story of the storyteller, which is within the story of Kwaidan) a 2nd man is haunted by the soul in the tea pot, and long story short eventually ends up trapped himself ...or so it would seem but (returning to the 2nd level) the storyteller doesn't finish. Ultimately we learn that the storyteller himself has gotten trapped in a pot of tea.

I don't think it's stretching the imagination too far to interpret this as a metaphor for being "lost" within fiction & fantasy. But beyond that it poses the head trippy idea that we are each characters lost within a fiction created by someone else--or even ourselves. If this makes any sense (it barely makes sense to me, but philosophers have written volumes on this subject) I highly recommend "Synecdoche, NY" about a playwright who decides to stage a play about his own life and ends up creating an entire fictional world inside a warehouse, and this fictional world overlaps & intersects his real world on multiple levels until he himself is "lost" and I think he ends up playing a minor character in his own life, or something like that.

The cup of tea story is along that same theme, sorta like the grandfather film of Synecdoche, Being John Malkovich, Adaptation and all the trippy Kaufman/Jonze films that dealt with overlapping concentric realities. Can't remember if it was Kant or one of those philosophers who first proposed the big "R" little "r" theory of "Reality/reality" but if anyone remembers that stuff I think it touches on that theme too (I flunked philosophy 101 so don't ask me).

Yes, absolutely it is the cup of tea segment that I am referring to. I just watched the segment and it gives me more the impression that it is a half-assed way of presenting the ol' the story teller is actually experiencing horror themselves trope. But I totally get the whole getting entrapped by your own fiction philosophy. I've seen all the films you mentioned but I don't remember most of them except Being John Malkovich because I really liked that one. That one was dope. I love that scene where Malkovich goes into his own head. Talk about a head trip (pun intended) and some crazy philosophical aspects. Plus Cameron Diaz in her best role IMO.

@movie_nazi said:

@rooprect said: For real dude I was also underwhelmed by the last segment, but on 2nd watch it packs a lotta meaning. Curious to know if anyone else wants to discuss this. If we're talking about the cup of tea segment (it's been a while, I hope that's the one we're talking about), it's a really trippy display of multiple storytelling levels. iirc it's about a struggling storyteller who's trying to finish a story but he keeps getting lost. Then he comes up with the cup of tea story about a bizarre pot of tea that seems to contain the soul of a man.

Within this story (which is within the story of the storyteller, which is within the story of Kwaidan) a 2nd man is haunted by the soul in the tea pot, and long story short eventually ends up trapped himself ...or so it would seem but (returning to the 2nd level) the storyteller doesn't finish. Ultimately we learn that the storyteller himself has gotten trapped in a pot of tea.

I don't think it's stretching the imagination too far to interpret this as a metaphor for being "lost" within fiction & fantasy. But beyond that it poses the head trippy idea that we are each characters lost within a fiction created by someone else--or even ourselves. If this makes any sense (it barely makes sense to me, but philosophers have written volumes on this subject) I highly recommend "Synecdoche, NY" about a playwright who decides to stage a play about his own life and ends up creating an entire fictional world inside a warehouse, and this fictional world overlaps & intersects his real world on multiple levels until he himself is "lost" and I think he ends up playing a minor character in his own life, or something like that.

The cup of tea story is along that same theme, sorta like the grandfather film of Synecdoche, Being John Malkovich, Adaptation and all the trippy Kaufman/Jonze films that dealt with overlapping concentric realities. Can't remember if it was Kant or one of those philosophers who first proposed the big "R" little "r" theory of "Reality/reality" but if anyone remembers that stuff I think it touches on that theme too (I flunked philosophy 101 so don't ask me).

Yes, absolutely it is the cup of tea segment that I am referring to. I just watched the segment and it gives me more the impression that it is a half-assed way of presenting the ol' the story teller is actually experiencing horror themselves trope. But I totally get the whole getting entrapped by your own fiction philosophy. I've seen all the films you mentioned but I don't remember most of them except Being John Malkovich because I really liked that one. That one was dope. I love that scene where Malkovich goes into his own head. Talk about a head trip (pun intended) and some crazy philosophical aspects. Plus Cameron Diaz in her best role IMO.

Nailed it - that's the exact scene I was thinking of! "entrapped by your own fiction" is one of those themes that Kaufman/Jonze love to do, and even though the Malkovich scene was played as hilarious comedy, the idea really makes you think... What happens if you try to be the puppetmaster controlling your own story? In Malkovich I think the idea is that you become totally obsessed with yourself (narcissistic personality disorder?) to the point that everyone & everything around you is a mirror of yourself. In a weird way I think that's also the theme of the cup of tea... When you get lost inside your own storytelling then you're trapped alone with only yourself.

idk I might be reading way too far into it. Maybe it's more like your 1st impression, it's just a lazy way to wrap up the movie with a horror cliché. But considering how good the other segments were, I figure the last one must've been trying to say something pretty important. I might try to hunt down the original Kwaidan short stories if they're translated into English, I bet that would clear things up.

@rooprect said:

@movie_nazi said:

@rooprect said: For real dude I was also underwhelmed by the last segment, but on 2nd watch it packs a lotta meaning. Curious to know if anyone else wants to discuss this. If we're talking about the cup of tea segment (it's been a while, I hope that's the one we're talking about), it's a really trippy display of multiple storytelling levels. iirc it's about a struggling storyteller who's trying to finish a story but he keeps getting lost. Then he comes up with the cup of tea story about a bizarre pot of tea that seems to contain the soul of a man.

Within this story (which is within the story of the storyteller, which is within the story of Kwaidan) a 2nd man is haunted by the soul in the tea pot, and long story short eventually ends up trapped himself ...or so it would seem but (returning to the 2nd level) the storyteller doesn't finish. Ultimately we learn that the storyteller himself has gotten trapped in a pot of tea.

I don't think it's stretching the imagination too far to interpret this as a metaphor for being "lost" within fiction & fantasy. But beyond that it poses the head trippy idea that we are each characters lost within a fiction created by someone else--or even ourselves. If this makes any sense (it barely makes sense to me, but philosophers have written volumes on this subject) I highly recommend "Synecdoche, NY" about a playwright who decides to stage a play about his own life and ends up creating an entire fictional world inside a warehouse, and this fictional world overlaps & intersects his real world on multiple levels until he himself is "lost" and I think he ends up playing a minor character in his own life, or something like that.

The cup of tea story is along that same theme, sorta like the grandfather film of Synecdoche, Being John Malkovich, Adaptation and all the trippy Kaufman/Jonze films that dealt with overlapping concentric realities. Can't remember if it was Kant or one of those philosophers who first proposed the big "R" little "r" theory of "Reality/reality" but if anyone remembers that stuff I think it touches on that theme too (I flunked philosophy 101 so don't ask me).

Yes, absolutely it is the cup of tea segment that I am referring to. I just watched the segment and it gives me more the impression that it is a half-assed way of presenting the ol' the story teller is actually experiencing horror themselves trope. But I totally get the whole getting entrapped by your own fiction philosophy. I've seen all the films you mentioned but I don't remember most of them except Being John Malkovich because I really liked that one. That one was dope. I love that scene where Malkovich goes into his own head. Talk about a head trip (pun intended) and some crazy philosophical aspects. Plus Cameron Diaz in her best role IMO.

Nailed it - that's the exact scene I was thinking of! "entrapped by your own fiction" is one of those themes that Kaufman/Jonze love to do, and even though the Malkovich scene was played as hilarious comedy, the idea really makes you think... What happens if you try to be the puppetmaster controlling your own story? In Malkovich I think the idea is that you become totally obsessed with yourself (narcissistic personality disorder?) to the point that everyone & everything around you is a mirror of yourself. In a weird way I think that's also the theme of the cup of tea... When you get lost inside your own storytelling then you're trapped alone with only yourself.

idk I might be reading way too far into it. Maybe it's more like your 1st impression, it's just a lazy way to wrap up the movie with a horror cliché. But considering how good the other segments were, I figure the last one must've been trying to say something pretty important. I might try to hunt down the original Kwaidan short stories if they're translated into English, I bet that would clear things up.

I'm totally willing to admit that I could be completely dead wrong in my horror trope assessment. What you say makes a lot of sense since they go out of their way to mention and describe theories of why some stories end up unfinished to suggest perhaps a it is because the author got so caught up in the story that he got sucked into it.

@rooprect said:

@movie_nazi said:

@rooprect said: For real dude I was also underwhelmed by the last segment, but on 2nd watch it packs a lotta meaning. Curious to know if anyone else wants to discuss this. If we're talking about the cup of tea segment (it's been a while, I hope that's the one we're talking about), it's a really trippy display of multiple storytelling levels. iirc it's about a struggling storyteller who's trying to finish a story but he keeps getting lost. Then he comes up with the cup of tea story about a bizarre pot of tea that seems to contain the soul of a man.

Within this story (which is within the story of the storyteller, which is within the story of Kwaidan) a 2nd man is haunted by the soul in the tea pot, and long story short eventually ends up trapped himself ...or so it would seem but (returning to the 2nd level) the storyteller doesn't finish. Ultimately we learn that the storyteller himself has gotten trapped in a pot of tea.

I don't think it's stretching the imagination too far to interpret this as a metaphor for being "lost" within fiction & fantasy. But beyond that it poses the head trippy idea that we are each characters lost within a fiction created by someone else--or even ourselves. If this makes any sense (it barely makes sense to me, but philosophers have written volumes on this subject) I highly recommend "Synecdoche, NY" about a playwright who decides to stage a play about his own life and ends up creating an entire fictional world inside a warehouse, and this fictional world overlaps & intersects his real world on multiple levels until he himself is "lost" and I think he ends up playing a minor character in his own life, or something like that.

The cup of tea story is along that same theme, sorta like the grandfather film of Synecdoche, Being John Malkovich, Adaptation and all the trippy Kaufman/Jonze films that dealt with overlapping concentric realities. Can't remember if it was Kant or one of those philosophers who first proposed the big "R" little "r" theory of "Reality/reality" but if anyone remembers that stuff I think it touches on that theme too (I flunked philosophy 101 so don't ask me).

Yes, absolutely it is the cup of tea segment that I am referring to. I just watched the segment and it gives me more the impression that it is a half-assed way of presenting the ol' the story teller is actually experiencing horror themselves trope. But I totally get the whole getting entrapped by your own fiction philosophy. I've seen all the films you mentioned but I don't remember most of them except Being John Malkovich because I really liked that one. That one was dope. I love that scene where Malkovich goes into his own head. Talk about a head trip (pun intended) and some crazy philosophical aspects. Plus Cameron Diaz in her best role IMO.

Nailed it - that's the exact scene I was thinking of! "entrapped by your own fiction" is one of those themes that Kaufman/Jonze love to do, and even though the Malkovich scene was played as hilarious comedy, the idea really makes you think... What happens if you try to be the puppetmaster controlling your own story? In Malkovich I think the idea is that you become totally obsessed with yourself (narcissistic personality disorder?) to the point that everyone & everything around you is a mirror of yourself. In a weird way I think that's also the theme of the cup of tea... When you get lost inside your own storytelling then you're trapped alone with only yourself.

idk I might be reading way too far into it. Maybe it's more like your 1st impression, it's just a lazy way to wrap up the movie with a horror cliché. But considering how good the other segments were, I figure the last one must've been trying to say something pretty important. I might try to hunt down the original Kwaidan short stories if they're translated into English, I bet that would clear things up.

https://publicdomainreview.org/collection/kwaidan-stories-and-studies-of-strange-things-1904

Here is the Wiki article about the man who wrote this/translated these stories:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafcadio_Hearn#Japanese_subjects