@chilone

What's funny is you act superior to me, but you use MLK to support your argument. That's not more intelligent. It's ludicrous. I've done my research, I've seen the statistics. I've taken the classes. More importantly, I don't parse out information so that I look like I'm smarter; the facts speak for themselves.

Yeah, there's auschwitz to remember the horror that was the SS. There are no statues of Hitler, however. Germany understands that it's country made a mistake and apologized for it. It feels shame for the Nazi Party. We had Slavery and segregation, lynchings to this day and the US still won't apologize for it. That, or the apologies come up short. The South is the only one that brags about its plantations and culture of slave labor.

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone

What's funny is you act superior to me, but you use MLK to support your argument. That's not more intelligent. It's ludicrous. I've done my research, I've seen the statistics. I've taken the classes. More importantly, I don't parse out information so that I look like I'm smarter; the facts speak for themselves.

Yeah, there's auschwitz to remember the horror that was the SS. There are no statues of Hitler, however. Germany understands that it's country made a mistake and apologized for it. It feels shame for the Nazi Party. We had Slavery and segregation, lynchings to this day and the US still won't apologize for it. That, or the apologies come up short. The South is the only one that brags about its plantations and culture of slave labor.

Lol. If anyone is acting superior, it's you. Yes. The facts speak for themselves and it's clear, you don't know the facts.

@chilone

So you were just a troll this entire time. Cool, cool, cool. People like you don't want to hear the truth, especially if it challenges what you already know. You say we're myopic, Jes^s. lol.

Also, I did what you would never do: I looked at your resource, and what did I find? An opinion piece. This is not a research journalist. But I did learn something new, that people from all walks of life have opinions on things (not to be confused with facts).

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone

What's funny is you act superior to me, but you use MLK to support your argument. That's not more intelligent. It's ludicrous. I've done my research, I've seen the statistics. I've taken the classes. More importantly, I don't parse out information so that I look like I'm smarter; the facts speak for themselves.

Yeah, there's auschwitz to remember the horror that was the SS. There are no statues of Hitler, however. Germany understands that it's country made a mistake and apologized for it. It feels shame for the Nazi Party. We had Slavery and segregation, lynchings to this day and the US still won't apologize for it. That, or the apologies come up short. The South is the only one that brags about its plantations and culture of slave labor.

You sound like someone who is posturing "white guilt" because you think it makes you look noble but it really makes you look foolish. I don't have any guilt nor do I apologize for things that happened a century before I was born and I had absolutely nothing to do with. I do my best to be kind, respectful and unbiased to all people and to do no harm. That's really all I can do that is of any value.

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone

So you were just a troll this entire time. Cool, cool, cool. People like you don't want to hear the truth, especially if it challenges what you already know. You say we're myopic, Jes^s. lol.

Also, I did what you would never do: I looked at your resource, and what did I find? An opinion piece. This is not a research journalist. But I did learn something new, that people from all walks of life have opinions on things (not to be confused with facts).

Hahaha! Troll? You are the troll and you proved it by saying what I would never do. What have you submitted for me to read? I read every word you wrote AND said you made some valid points but that's not good enough, apparently.

By the way, that "opinion piece" which I found in five minutes had hard facts as it's foundation.

@chilone said:

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone

What's funny is you act superior to me, but you use MLK to support your argument. That's not more intelligent. It's ludicrous. I've done my research, I've seen the statistics. I've taken the classes. More importantly, I don't parse out information so that I look like I'm smarter; the facts speak for themselves.

Yeah, there's auschwitz to remember the horror that was the SS. There are no statues of Hitler, however. Germany understands that it's country made a mistake and apologized for it. It feels shame for the Nazi Party. We had Slavery and segregation, lynchings to this day and the US still won't apologize for it. That, or the apologies come up short. The South is the only one that brags about its plantations and culture of slave labor.

You sound like someone who is posturing "white guilt" because you think it makes you look noble but it really makes you look foolish. I don't have any guilt nor do I apologize for things that happened a century before I was born and I had absolutely nothing to do with. I do my best to be kind, respectful and unbiased to all people and to do no harm. That's really all I can do that is of any value.

You think White guilt is what minorities want? People apologizing to us constantly like we're some sort of victim all the time, having to make you feel better about your guilt? F*ck no. I hate it. And it misses the point, that while you didn't cause slavery you are still benefitting from a racist system that favors white people in policy and in upward mobility.

I don't want your guilt. Work that stuff out with your therapist. But don't act like you've handed us our opportunities, like we didn't have to work hard for them. And don't act like you have the upper-hand on information.

@chilone

The reference I gave you before: With Friends Like These, talking about middle America. https://crooked.com/podcast/white-fragility-in-the-wild/

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone said:

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone

What's funny is you act superior to me, but you use MLK to support your argument. That's not more intelligent. It's ludicrous. I've done my research, I've seen the statistics. I've taken the classes. More importantly, I don't parse out information so that I look like I'm smarter; the facts speak for themselves.

Yeah, there's auschwitz to remember the horror that was the SS. There are no statues of Hitler, however. Germany understands that it's country made a mistake and apologized for it. It feels shame for the Nazi Party. We had Slavery and segregation, lynchings to this day and the US still won't apologize for it. That, or the apologies come up short. The South is the only one that brags about its plantations and culture of slave labor.

You sound like someone who is posturing "white guilt" because you think it makes you look noble but it really makes you look foolish. I don't have any guilt nor do I apologize for things that happened a century before I was born and I had absolutely nothing to do with. I do my best to be kind, respectful and unbiased to all people and to do no harm. That's really all I can do that is of any value.

You think White guilt is what minorities want? People apologizing to us constantly like we're some sort of victim all the time, having to make you feel better about your guilt? F*ck no. I hate it. And it misses the point, that while you didn't cause slavery you are still benefitting from a racist system that favors white people in policy and in upward mobility.

I don't want your guilt. Work that stuff out with your therapist. But don't act like you've handed us our opportunities, like we didn't have to work hard for them. And don't act like you have the upper-hand on information.

No. I said you sound like you HAVE white guilt. I.E. You are white.

@chilone

You know what, I'm going to choose not to disclose my race, as that has nothing to do with my opinions of injustice. Is it hard for you to believe that a person of color can counter your argument the way I have? If so, this discussion is over.

@ajsmitty89 said:

You think White guilt is what minorities want? People apologizing to us constantly like we're some sort of victim all the time, having to make you feel better about your guilt? F*ck no. I hate it. And it misses the point, that while you didn't cause slavery you are still benefitting from a racist system that favors white people in policy and in upward mobility.

I don't want your guilt. Work that stuff out with your therapist. But don't act like you've handed us our opportunities, like we didn't have to work hard for them. And don't act like you have the upper-hand on information.

Look bruh, my ancestors were dirt poor share cropper who were taken advantage of and oppressed but I'm not remotely concerned about who did that to them, what they gained, or in getting anything out of them, including an apology. I'm certain, if you look back far enough, you'll find your ancestors benefited from the backs of someone else. Are you going to go find them and make restitution? I didn't think so.

@chilone Yes, but these are real issues affecting people of minority groups today. Children put in cages? That's today. Here's the person who wrote that article on CNN talking about this very issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1_y5OQfCZY

It's so dismissive of real issues.

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone

You know what, I'm going to choose not to disclose my race, as that has nothing to do with my opinions of injustice. Is it hard for you to believe that a person of color can counter your argument the way I have? If so, this discussion is over.

I've had my ass handed to me in discussions with people of color. Keep grasping.

@ajsmitty89 said:

@chilone Yes, but these are real issues affecting people of minority groups today. Children put in cages? That's today. Here's the person who wrote that article on CNN talking about this very issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1_y5OQfCZY

It's so dismissive of real issues.

I'll watch it but I can't at work.

Look bruh, my ancestors were dirt poor share cropper who were taken advantage of and oppressed but I'm not remotely concerned about who did that to them, what they gained, or in getting anything out of them, including an apology. I'm certain, if you look back far enough, you'll find your ancestors benefited from the backs of someone else. Are you going to go find them and make restitution? I didn't think so.

Industrialization affected everyone, including minorities. what happened to your agricultural ancestors was not a marginalization of their race. They weren't singled out because of the color of their skin.

@chilone said:

That's really all I can do that is of any value.

If you really, sincerely want to do something of value, are you willing to take suggestions? Because there is A LOT more you can do.

No one is asking for an apology for what people 100 years ago did. But, you could

• acknowledge that what they did is still affecting policy, politics, economics, housing, education, opportunity, equality, law enforcement, access to mobility and perpetuating institutionalized inequalities;

• denounce systemic inequality and injustice;

• stop using false equivalences to equivocate on the issues, but be clear in your denouncement of systemic injustice and inequality;

• stop confusing being white with white supremacy - denouncing white supremacy is not an attack on being white unless your white identity is so wrapped up tightly with white supremacy that you can't distinguish between the two;

• develop the skill of being able to discuss the problem that is white supremacy without having to defend your being white. It is not easy, because the two are so closely related, but it is doable, if in fact your being white is not dependent upon white supremacy.

All these are very valuable. Would you please add them?