Discuss The Avengers

All around great interactions between characters like Hulk/Thor, Iron man/Cap and the ground fighters. Everyone got shine. Man of steel action was better but this had variety with the characters i enjoyed alot

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I honestly don't remember the action of Man of Steel that well, only that it was somewhat brutal. I'd have to give this one to Whedon and The Avengers.

Whedon couldn't top Avengers no matter what, even if Marvel had let him do his thing.

Can't say I loved either. I've always been of the unpopular opinion that The Avengers was overrated. Yes, I just said that. Cast your stones now. Sorry to poop the party. I'm not saying it's a bad film. But that climax was CGI heavy and tensionless for me. Because you had these 5 superhumans fight off a bunch of wimpy, faceless, CGI aliens. I just never felt any threat. They never seemed in danger.

Man of Steel again was way too CGI heavy but also felt like a Street Fighter style video game. That one female villain even kept doing a special move. Which was a shame because I really liked the slower, more ponderous first half.

@JustinJackFlash said:

Can't say I loved either. I've always been of the unpopular opinion that The Avengers was overrated. Yes, I just said that. Cast your stones now. Sorry to poop the party. I'm not saying it's a bad film. But that climax was CGI heavy and tensionless for me. Because you had these 5 superhumans fight off a bunch of wimpy, faceless, CGI aliens. I just never felt any threat. They never seemed in danger.

The thing is, not all of the Avengers are equally invulnerable. Cap, Hawkeye, and Natasha are like regular human beings -- with special skills. Cap may have superhuman strength, but he can certainly die in a firefight. It's funny because I was just thinking not long ago that maybe the latter 2 Avengers I mentioned could be Defenders. I'm not even sure why they're lumped into "Earth's mightiest heroes."

I agree that the film is overrated.

@Satch_the_man said:

The thing is, not all of the Avengers are equally invulnerable. Cap, Hawkeye, and Natasha are like regular human beings -- with special skills. Cap may have superhuman strength, but he can certainly die in a firefight. It's funny because I was just thinking not long ago that maybe the latter 2 Avengers I mentioned could be Defenders. I'm not even sure why they're lumped into "Earth's mightiest heroes."

Yeah, they could be. I could totally see Black Widow as a Netflix show. Not the version we have, but a darker,more mature version.

Your right, they're not all superhuman. But I still did feel that it was just too easy for them. I felt no threat. It was the way it was portrayed. It was like The Avengers just brushed them aside.

@JustinJackFlash said:

@Satch_the_man said:

The thing is, not all of the Avengers are equally invulnerable. Cap, Hawkeye, and Natasha are like regular human beings -- with special skills. Cap may have superhuman strength, but he can certainly die in a firefight. It's funny because I was just thinking not long ago that maybe the latter 2 Avengers I mentioned could be Defenders. I'm not even sure why they're lumped into "Earth's mightiest heroes."

Yeah, they could be. I could totally see Black Widow as a Netflix show. Not the version we have, but a darker,more mature version.

Your right, they're not all superhuman. But I still did feel that it was just too easy for them. I felt no threat. It was the way it was portrayed. It was like The Avengers just brushed them aside.

I feel you dude. Maybe in Phase 4, they'll finally do that standalone Black Widow movie, though. And it'll really be standalone -- not just another step in the endless storyline that Marvel creates. Maybe they'll greatly change things up for the next phase.

Well I would rather see her appear in the next season of Daredevil. Remember the two had a personal relationship at one point. They could easily set up that part and that would introduce Daredevil to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The bridge most have been waiting for. Daredevil entering the Marvel Universe. It would also open a door for a Black Widow Netflix show if they consider doing that. As for a standalone picture. I would love see it but right now all eyes will be on Captain Marvel. if she fails to generate numbers that are on par with Wonder Woman or even Doctor Strange. There may not be a Black Widow movie in the near future. So if you guys want a Black Widow movie then Captain Marvel has got to be a big blockbuster even outshining Wonder Woman who may have saved the DC Extended Universe. Yes she has saved it and hope Justice League will not disappoint other wise Warner Brothers may Reboot that universe although some say Flash will take care that job since the movie is going to be a Flashpoint story. Which means the universe is rebooted. Oddly enough Wonder Woman is supposedly set to accompany Flash in the movie. So Maybe after Flash we see entirely new versions of Superman and Batman. I don't think Wonder Woman will change since she is in the movie if rumors are correct. However if Justice League is a massive hit like Avengers then it would be moot to reboot although Ben Affleck is not a guaranteed bet to make future Batman movies. Too many conflicting reports that he is done after Justice League or He is all in with the universe and Batman. So maybe the Flash movie is in a way to help bring in a new Batman to DC. Hey anything is possible. Lets hope Affleck decides to stick around to do another Batman. And that Black Widow get a shot a solo movie or at least a Show on Netflix. As for Phase four of the Marvel Universe well things can get pretty interesting there. Phase four could be like a reboot of the Marvel universe where a new Captain America and Iron Man will emerge and who knows maybe Thor has a change in store too. Only safe characters would be The Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Ant Man, Black Panther, and of course Spider-Man. All the others have contracts that maybe over by the beginning of Phase four. After all its been hinted that Phase Four is going to be something entirely different from what we have becomed accustomed to.

one thing i think Whedon did well in both Avengers films was juggling the different characters. even latecomer Thor got a healthy amount of comparative screentime in the first one.

though in my book the Russo Bros trump him pretty handily in constructing action sequences.

Man of Steel was painfully overblown. it felt like an assault on the viewer (and the lead character but that's probably a different discussion).

@BarkingBaphomet said:

though in my book the Russo Bros trump him pretty handily in constructing action sequences.

The Russo's are awesome at action. They introduced a grittiness to superhero action. It feels kind of Bourne like. You feel the impact of the blows. It all looks hard, tangible and real. Less cartooney. And they made Black Panther seem deadly as hell.

I am looking forward to Infinity War because of them.

@BarkingBaphomet said:

one thing i think Whedon did well in both Avengers films was juggling the different characters. even latecomer Thor got a healthy amount of comparative screentime in the first one.

though in my book the Russo Bros trump him pretty handily in constructing action sequences.

Man of Steel was painfully overblown. it felt like an assault on the viewer (and the lead character but that's probably a different discussion).

After watching The Avengers I was impressed with the depth of the dialog that makes up the characterizations of the heroes that Whedon crafted. Some of their banter was world building, some of the back in forth spoke to their strength and weaknesses, lots of it was funny and did more than just fill the air with word salad.

In an attempt to show Cap as a Man out of Time Whedon had him unfamiliar with topical references and Cap was shown clearly uncomfortable or out of synch with the others. Not at odds just not up to speed. It was overplayed by Whedon because Cap became the brunt of the joke too often while Tony and the others got to shine.

The action was great but in comparison to the Russo Brothers (hindsight being 20-20) Whedon probably would have upped his game but he was clearly burdened with a huge task. Again I feel that Cap suffered the most at the expense of others as the audience was left with just why would Cap be even considered an Avenger.

The one long tracking shot was fantastic and showcased the team working together and was probably every comic book fans dream come true and will be quite difficult for others to duplicate given the various differences with the power sets of different characters. The selling point for me and is a gift that continues to give is the dialog which set the stage for many events to come if the MCU is beholden to go in that direction.

The invasion is a large sprawling continuous fight sequence. Cap is heroic, Thor and Hulk are brutal, Hawkeye and Black Widow are judiciously efficient and Iron Man is shown to be tactical and methodical.

@rgreen7313 said:

After watching The Avengers I was impressed with the depth of the dialog that makes up the characterizations of the heroes that Whedon crafted. Some of their banter was world building, some of the back in forth spoke to their strength and weaknesses, lots of it was funny and did more than just fill the air with word salad.

Thing is, Whedon didn't really "create" any of the Avengers, except maybe Hawkeye. Everyone else was introduced by other writers and directors in other films. Hawkeye was introduced in Thor, too, but he barely said anything in it, and Whedon ended up giving him his characterization. This is what impressed me so much about Avengers: how good Whedon was with taking these disparate elements (the characters) and juxtaposing them with each other, while remaining true to what others "created."

Of course, the heroes already existed in comicbooks before they were ever in movies -- that's why I put the word create in quotes.

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