This happens a lot with my tastes - movies I rate highly don't always enjoy wide praise, while movies everyone loves leave me thinking WTF?

@DRDMovieMusings said:

This happens a lot with my tastes - movies I rate highly don't always enjoy wide praise, while movies everyone loves leave me thinking WTF?

I think that's the case with many people. And I think the world condemns and praises a little too easily as bandwagons are jumped on. But I have certainly been guilty of that myself.

And you'd probably balk at some of the films people adore but I don't think are so great. Maybe a thread for another time. Although someone's probably already done one like that.

I created a list called "Bad Movies I Like" which is not exactly the same as what you're talking about. My list is about movies that I admit are not very good, yet I still enjoy them.

If I get you correctly, you're talking about movies you think really are good, but don't get the acknowledgement as being good that you think they deserve. I can think of a few that that jump into my mind that fit this:

• Suburbicon (2017). Rating is low, and it lost money. Based on a true story of a Black family terrorized by white supremacists in Levittown, PA in the 1950s, it was just too discomfiting for most to enjoy as it shined a spotlight on an ugly chapter in an ugly side of American history.

• Life (1999). Rating is not too bad, but it lost money. Calling it a "comedy" didn't help, as people were expecting rip-roaring hilarity from Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence and instead got a sprawling dramatic indictment of the 20th century development of the prison-industrial complex that incarcerated a disproportionate number of Black people on wrongful convictions in order to extend legal slave labor.

Both these movies dramatize real history in a way that calls out racism. The backlash against calling out white supremacy has itself become a crusade for those who just do not want to face this ugly part of American history. As such, I can understand how too many people would be hesitant to recognize how good these movies are if they see them at all, or are hesitant to see it once they are told by someone what the movie is about from a dismissive position.

But, please be clear - this is not a thread about racism or white supremacy or anything like that, I'm not trying to hijack your thread. This is a thread about movies we think are good but didn't get the critical praise we think they should have received, for whatever reasons - I just mentioned these two because, as I said, they jumped into my mind, and I provided an educated guess as to why they rated so poorly or didn't make a lot of money.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

I created a list called "Bad Movies I Like" which is not exactly the same as what you're talking about. My list is about movies that I admit are not very good, yet I still enjoy them.

You sure like Eddie Murphy. I never got why The Golden Child was so hated, I watched it all the time when I was a kid. Maybe it's due a wee nostalgic rewatch.

If I get you correctly, you're talking about movies you think really are good, but don't get the acknowledgement as being good that you think they deserve. I can think of a few that that jump into my mind that fit this:

• Suburbicon (2017). Rating is low, and it lost money. Based on a true story of a Black family terrorized by white supremacists in Levittown, PA in the 1950s, it was just too discomfiting for most to enjoy as it shined a spotlight on an ugly chapter in an ugly side of American history.

• Life (1999). Rating is not too bad, but it lost money. Calling it a "comedy" didn't help, as people were expecting rip-roaring hilarity from Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence and instead got a sprawling dramatic indictment of the 20th century development of the prison-industrial complex that incarcerated a disproportionate number of Black people on wrongful convictions in order to extend legal slave labor.

I did intend to watch Suburbicon. But then the reviews were not good so I never bothered. I'll probably give that a go.

I did see Life when it first came out but I don't remember it very well. I think you're right and I was expecting more of a comedy. I can't actually remember if I liked it or not.

Both these movies dramatize real history in a way that calls out racism. The backlash against calling out white supremacy has itself become a crusade for those who just do not want to face this ugly part of American history. As such, I can understand how too many people would be hesitant to recognize how good these movies are if they see them at all, or are hesitant to see it once they are told by someone what the movie is about from a dismissive position.

The backlash isn't really about not wanting to face up to that part of history. For some it is which is why I can see it can be confusing. But not everyone is speaking from the same place. I think it can also be confusing for the other side, who tend to assume that every social justice activist is an obsessive intent on censoring everything and thinks of nothing else. Both sides hear a lot of extremes from the opposite side and put every person on that side in the same box. But those voices don't speak for everyone. I'll criticize both sides yet I still put plenty of films and shows that deal with racial issues on my watchlist. I'm currently watching The Underground Railroad, a new show from Moonlight director Barry Jenkins. I recently watched One Night in Miami, Queen and Slim and all of Steve McQueen's (no not that one) Small Axe films. So for me it's definitely not a case of not wanting to face up to it. Though the fact that we have to use terms like "sides" is pretty tragic and we should all listen and discuss to find out what we're all really about.

But, please be clear - this is not a thread about racism or white supremacy or anything like that, I'm not trying to hijack your thread. This is a thread about movies we think are good but didn't get the critical praise we think they should have received, for whatever reasons - I just mentioned these two because, as I said, they jumped into my mind, and I provided an educated guess as to why they rated so poorly or didn't make a lot of money.

I wouldn't worry, I've never been bothered about people straying from topic. It's not how organic conversation works.

@JustinJackFlash said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

I created a list called "Bad Movies I Like" which is not exactly the same as what you're talking about. My list is about movies that I admit are not very good, yet I still enjoy them.

You sure like Eddie Murphy. I never got why The Golden Child was so hated, I watched it all the time when I was a kid. Maybe it's due a wee nostalgic rewatch.

Yep. I sure do. He's an underrated actor, and a visionary leader - he's created opportunities for young Black actors to work with him and learn from him, as well as bridge the younger generation with the elders who'd come before. I could go on at length, but I won't - suffice to say, I'm a big fan.

If I get you correctly, you're talking about movies you think really are good, but don't get the acknowledgement as being good that you think they deserve. I can think of a few that that jump into my mind that fit this:

• Suburbicon (2017). Rating is low, and it lost money. Based on a true story of a Black family terrorized by white supremacists in Levittown, PA in the 1950s, it was just too discomfiting for most to enjoy as it shined a spotlight on an ugly chapter in an ugly side of American history.

• Life (1999). Rating is not too bad, but it lost money. Calling it a "comedy" didn't help, as people were expecting rip-roaring hilarity from Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence and instead got a sprawling dramatic indictment of the 20th century development of the prison-industrial complex that incarcerated a disproportionate number of Black people on wrongful convictions in order to extend legal slave labor.

I did intend to watch Suburbicon. But then the reviews were not good so I never bothered. I'll probably give that a go.

You seem the type who will appreciate what they were trying to say. Whenever you do get around to seeing it, I'll look forward to any comments you may want to post to its discussion board, if you're so inclined.

I did see Life when it first came out but I don't remember it very well. I think you're right and I was expecting more of a comedy. I can't actually remember if I liked it or not.

If you ever see it again, same thing, would love your thoughts.

Both these movies dramatize real history in a way that calls out racism. The backlash against calling out white supremacy has itself become a crusade for those who just do not want to face this ugly part of American history. As such, I can understand how too many people would be hesitant to recognize how good these movies are if they see them at all, or are hesitant to see it once they are told by someone what the movie is about from a dismissive position.

The backlash isn't really about not wanting to face up to that part of history. For some it is which is why I can see it can be confusing. But not everyone is speaking from the same place. I think it can also be confusing for the other side, who tend to assume that every social justice activist is an obsessive intent on censoring everything and thinks of nothing else. Both sides hear a lot of extremes from the opposite side and put every person on that side in the same box. But those voices don't speak for everyone. I'll criticize both sides yet I still put plenty of films and shows that deal with racial issues on my watchlist. I'm currently watching The Underground Railroad, a new show from Moonlight director Barry Jenkins. I recently watched One Night in Miami, Queen and Slim and all of Steve McQueen's (no not that one) Small Axe films. So for me it's definitely not a case of not wanting to face up to it. Though the fact that we have to use terms like "sides" is pretty tragic and we should all listen and discuss to find out what we're all really about.

I hear you. Hey, have you watched I Am Not Your Negro? The movie is full of insight, but one particular matter it captured would greatly shed light on the difficulty some people have with dealing with the past...but, I'm getting ahead of myself. We can revisit if/when you do see Suburbicon.

But, please be clear - this is not a thread about racism or white supremacy or anything like that, I'm not trying to hijack your thread. This is a thread about movies we think are good but didn't get the critical praise we think they should have received, for whatever reasons - I just mentioned these two because, as I said, they jumped into my mind, and I provided an educated guess as to why they rated so poorly or didn't make a lot of money.

I wouldn't worry, I've never been bothered about people straying from topic. It's not how organic conversation works.

Cool. Indeed.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

I hear you. Hey, have you watched I Am Not Your Negro? The movie is full of insight, but one particular matter it captured would greatly shed light on the difficulty some people have with dealing with the past...but, I'm getting ahead of myself. We can revisit if/when you do see Suburbicon.

I have seen it, yes. It was very good but unfortunately again I can't remember it very well. Trouble is I watch an absolute shit ton of films, documentaries and shows. So I struggle to remember things. Didn't use to be like that when I was younger.

@JustinJackFlash said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

I hear you. Hey, have you watched I Am Not Your Negro? The movie is full of insight, but one particular matter it captured would greatly shed light on the difficulty some people have with dealing with the past...but, I'm getting ahead of myself. We can revisit if/when you do see Suburbicon.

I have seen it, yes. It was very good but unfortunately again I can't remember it very well.

So, the part of the film where they talk about how America had fallen in love with story, with myth, as an escape from having to deal with/face reality:

• The development of the Confederate "Lost Cause" myth to obfuscate from the reality of why they seceded and subsequently went to war against the central government (even though all 13 states' official statements cited slavery as the common cause that bound them all in secession, and VP Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech" of 1861 declared that slavery was indeed the the foundation upon which the Confederate States of America came about)
• One might consider how early white supremacist efforts included destroying evidence so that they could craft stories that couldn't be refuted by evidence.
• Fast forward to cops today turning off bodycams so that, again, without evidence, their crafted stories could become the perceived reality about given situations. How often have bystander mobile phone videos captured the reality that might otherwise have been lost to the "official police statements" that amounted to crafted stories.

In this over-arching context, then, it's understandable that a movie that sheds light through the veil of myth and story (you know, that the 1950s were the "good old days") to bring reality and truth to light would/should be uncomfortable to a culture that is steeped in its predilection for erasing/hiding/destroying evidence/truth in order to enjoy the comfort of myth and story.

If you peruse the discussion board for Suburbicon, you'll likely be amazed at the efforts through which some commenters go to avoid the reality of what the story was intended to be about, as explained by the very people who actually made the movie! - this over-arching context makes that a little more understandable.

Trouble is I watch an absolute shit ton of films, documentaries and shows. So I struggle to remember things. Didn't use to be like that when I was younger.

You're not alone!

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@JustinJackFlash said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

I hear you. Hey, have you watched I Am Not Your Negro? The movie is full of insight, but one particular matter it captured would greatly shed light on the difficulty some people have with dealing with the past...but, I'm getting ahead of myself. We can revisit if/when you do see Suburbicon.

I have seen it, yes. It was very good but unfortunately again I can't remember it very well.

So, the part of the film where they talk about how America had fallen in love with story, with myth, as an escape from having to deal with/face reality:

• The development of the Confederate "Lost Cause" myth to obfuscate from the reality of why they seceded and subsequently went to war against the central government (even though all 13 states' official statements cited slavery as the common cause that bound them all in secession, and VP Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech" of 1861 declared that slavery was indeed the the foundation upon which the Confederate States of America came about)
• One might consider how early white supremacist efforts included destroying evidence so that they could craft stories that couldn't be refuted by evidence.
• Fast forward to cops today turning off bodycams so that, again, without evidence, their crafted stories could become the perceived reality about given situations. How often have bystander mobile phone videos captured the reality that might otherwise have been lost to the "official police statements" that amounted to crafted stories.

In this over-arching context, then, it's understandable that a movie that sheds light through the veil of myth and story (you know, that the 1950s were the "good old days") to bring reality and truth to light would/should be uncomfortable to a culture that is steeped in its predilection for erasing/hiding/destroying evidence/truth in order to enjoy the comfort of myth and story.

If you peruse the discussion board for Suburbicon, you'll likely be amazed at the efforts through which some commenters go to avoid the reality of what the story was intended to be about, as explained by the very people who actually made the movie! - this over-arching context makes that a little more understandable.

Interesting stuff. I'll keep that in mind when I watch the film.